The Historical Jesus

[h311inac311]

Interesting, this is the first time I've encountered a historical narrative this skewed against Jesus.

Sorry Foxaer, it appears that you and I are from different holes; Or perhaps, different echo chambers. Regardless of that fact, given that the fiction of Christ is so easy to prove, why not just do that and alleviate me of my ignorance?

[Silver]

The literary world is rife with fiction. None more than the religious reader is as gullible concerning unnatural and ahistorical events.

[h311inac311]

And if one is Historically illiterate then who can correct him?

[Silver]

Where common sense is lacking, none can be corrected except via conscious effort by the self.

[h311inac311]

"The truth is not what you want it to be, it is what it is, and you must bend to its will or be stuck living a lie." - Miamoto Musashi.

Lucian 165 A.D. "The Christians, you know, worship a man to this day - the distinguished personage who introduced their novel rites, and was crucified on that account... You see, these misguided creatures start with the general conviction that they are immortal for all time, which explains the contempt of death and voluntary self-devotion which are so common among them; and then it was impressed on them by their original lawgiver that they are all brothers from the moment that they are converted, and deny the gods of Greece, and worship the crucified sage, and live after his laws. All this they take quite on faith, with the result that they despise all worldly goods alike, regarding them merely as common property."

[Silver]

If a truth can be contended, its veracity lies quite outside of empirical reality.

[h311inac311]

If a truth can be contended, its veracity lies quite outside of empirical reality.

IF

[Silver]

IF religion ever manages to escape from its faithful prison, then perhaps there could be validity in such beliefs.

[h311inac311]

As it is written, The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom: and the knowledge of the holy is understanding.

Where is the wise? Where is the Scribe? Where is the debater of this age?

IF your faith is based on evidence then why not provide some?

Or do Christians have more than enough evidence to believe in Christ?

How long will you present me with nothing but dogma?

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

Interesting, this is the first time I've encountered a historical narrative this skewed against Jesus.

Here is my first question for all of you, when did people start to point out that Jesus wasn't a real person? Or that all of the miracles were made up? How long did it take the ancient world to produce this account?

As far as I know, Luke is actually a highly regarded historian. As the author of his gospel as well as Acts; I have heard that so far every single name of a person, place or a thing that can be accounted for by modern archaeology has been confirmed to be true. A quote from New Testament scholar Greg Bloomberg, "A historian who has been found trustworthy where he or she can be tested should be given the benefit of the doubt in cases where no tests are available." So far we have more than 70 confirmed tests of Luke's historical accuracy which means that Luke is, by any standard, a trustworthy historian.

Beyond this we have the over-abundance of copies of the New Testament, every-single book and letter has more than 1,000 early copies for us to compare against one another. Yes, scholars will make mistakes, but they won't make the same mistakes in the same places. Consider this simple example.

The cat leaped
A cat jumped
the dog jumped

Here we have 3 copies of 1 original message. Can you tell me what the original message is even though each copy is off by 1 out of every 3 words.

With 4 biographies, all of which containing a compatible story, I think we have every reason to believe in the Historical Jesus, but beyond that we have the witness of the apostles, men who were willing to die for their risen King.

The fact that Luke is held (by some scholars) to be an estimable historian has no bearing on the historicity of Jesus. Suppose I were to write essays about my hometown. I get all the place names right, describe the architecture in detail, and include the names of well-known people. However, I also include in the essays a detailed description of a nine foot tall farmer who had the magical ability to turn wood into cheese. Accuracy in some respects isn’t the same as total accuracy.

The textual variations in copies of the New Testament are a lot more severe than you seem to think. Estimates - among both religious and secular scholars - range between 200 000 and 400 000.

The number of copies is immaterial. There are millions of copies of ‘Moby Dick’ in existence, all more identical that scriptural writings. That doesn’t mean it’s a true story.

Boru