Veganism

[AFTT47]

I am not vegan or even pure vegetarian but I have made a conscious effort to limit my meat intake and yes, it is at least 50% for moral reasons. There are unquestionable health benefits from limiting (but not completely eliminating) meat consumption but my initial motivation was moral. I'd estimate about 80% of my diet is non-meat and I would like it to be higher but I'm not perfect.

Interestingly, I don't expect this to be much of an issue in 20 years. Anyone who is interested can look up Tony Seba (a futurist with an amazing track record) and precision fermentation. The same process we now use to make insulin for diabetics will eventually allow us to grow meat and dairy products in the lab. I understand we can actually do it now but the cost is way beyond practical. That cost has fallen by a crazy factor (~10,000) over the last 20 years. It is projected to fall to the point where it is cheaper then conventional methods - and require one tenth the land and one tenth the fresh water. More importantly IMHO, almost zero animal suffering.

I know some of you just don't see animal suffering as a big deal. I have never been able to understand that because it couldn't be more obvious that more complex creatures like mammals feel emotions as well as pain and discomfort. I don't get not caring about that. Yes, the world is what it is. Life feeds on life and we have little power to change that - for now. That doesn't mean we have to like it though and we shouldn't take steps to minimize it.

[The Grand Nudger]

It's a land use issue, at it's heart. Being able to produce protein products in a lab will never, for example, eliminate livestock production. It may give the subset of interested consumers other options - but it will not give the set of producers other options. It won't reduce the overall demand for livestock products, either. Just shift the end point.

I personally think that the ethical field lies somewhere between abolitionism and contemporary pastoralism. I don't believe that the best ethical outcome for people or for animals is abolitionism. I do think that a contemporary pastoralist system is decades away - not because people don't want it...and alot of them for ethical reasons..and not even because we couldn't pay for it - plenty do right now, it's a strong niche - but because what we want and what we can do...even assuming futurist predictions are true...is not the same thing. Not all problems have solutions. Or, if we prefer, good ones.

[AFTT47]

Being able to produce protein products in a lab will never, for example, eliminate livestock production.

Tony Seba who I mentioned upthread differs. He believes that by the mid 2040s there will no longer be anyone butchering animals for food. And why would they if they can produce the same thing in a lab?

[The Grand Nudger]

A bit like asking why anyone would be making wood furniture now that we have 3d printing.

[arewethereyet]

As the granddaughter of a farmer and a fisherman....I think I will continue eating meat, dairy, eggs, and seafood.

[Jackalope]

Regarding lab-grown meat. Dunno, man. I don't eat most meat - don't get me wrong, the stuff is delicious - but I don't think it's a product I'd be all that excited about. I don't think my family is alone in reducing the amount of highly processed foods we eat.

Mom used to serve me Impossible burger when she made burgers for our kids. They're good, they pass for beef IMO. I'd never buy the product though, I just don't eat like that any more.

I find it hilarious that I'm on the same side as the carnivores on the topic of lab meat.

[AFTT47]

People have an irrational reaction to lab grown meat and dairy. What difference does it make? It's the same thing brought about in steel containers rather than in the guts of an animal. How can a person be grossed-out by that but not a sausage or a hot dog?

[The Grand Nudger]

People have irrational reactions to all sorts of things. Lab grown meat is one of them, livestock production is another. I think that's okay. If we're concerned about the way animals are treated that's not exclusively or explicitly rational anyway. It's more about how either thing makes us feel, right? I don't think that anyone should put anything in their mouth that they don't want there.

[paulpablo]

I'm not a vegan but I don't hate vegans and I'm really confused by people who seem to enjoy provoking and giving hate to vegans.

I've considered it for myself but I get the impression you need some sort of nutrient supplements when you give up meat. It seems complicated.

Also I'm not going to lie, I love trying out different types of meat, ostrich is my favourite, and I've tried different types of beef and so on. I tried haggis and liver for the first time relatively recently and quite liked them both.

There's some meat I try and avoid, eating pigs for some reason makes me avoid pork, I buy free range eggs for whatever good that does, and there's some meat I've heard where they force feed some animal and keep it in a box, all that stuff I wouldn't have. It's called foie gras, I had to Google it.

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

Reasons to be vegan

-It's healthier than a diet that includes meat.

-It's more environmentally sustainable.

-If practiced on a large enough scale, it would eliminate the need for factory farms.

-It is economically sound.

-It spurs research into non-food animal-based products.

-It is less cruel.

Reasons to NOT be vegan



Boru