Elon Musk

[Fake Messiah]

Leon is in love again.

[Deesse23]

There's a difference between freedom of speech and freedom to denigrate.  The US goes so far as to allow the latter, most countries don't.

That's why it's called freedom of speech, not freedom of speech that we approve of. If someone can't handle any criticism, they need to grow up. Or move to the UK.

By this standard freedom of speech also covers frredom to ask someone to murder someone else. If someone is unable to realize that there is no "freedom of speech", that nobody wants it, but everybody has different standards where to  put the limits, he needs to grow up and leave his fantasy land of "free speech!.period.".

[Thumpalumpacus]

That's why it's called freedom of speech, not freedom of speech that we approve of. If someone can't handle any criticism, they need to grow up. Or move to the UK.

Criticism and denigration are two very different things. Racists like to think they’re the same, though.

Boru

Edit: Inextricably linked to free speech is freedom of the press. The UK is rated 23rd in the world, while the US clocks in at 55th place. Cool, huh?

I think that even hate speech should be allowed, for the simple fact that countering it is punching at air if it's stifled. Drive it underground, no one takes it seriously, and now we have AfD in Germany.

I like knowing who are the bigots, and think taking them on is useful.

[Deesse23]

The Afd did not emerge because some peoples (hate) speech was curtailed. The AfD emerged because it created a public platform for hate speech. It emerged because it made hate speech socially acceptable.

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

Criticism and denigration are two very different things. Racists like to think they’re the same, though.

Boru

Edit: Inextricably linked to free speech is freedom of the press. The UK is rated 23rd in the world, while the US clocks in at 55th place. Cool, huh?

I think that even hate speech should be allowed, for the simple fact that countering it is punching at air if it's stifled. Drive it underground, no one takes it seriously, and now we have AfD in Germany.

I like knowing who are the bigots, and think taking them on is useful.

Depending on how we define 'hate speech' (and what you precisely mean by 'allowed'), I tentatively agree.

Boru

[Deesse23]

I think we should be careful to distinguish between "freedom of speech" as in "regulated by government", its original meaning, and socially acceptable speech as well as limitations/infringements by corporations like X.

What MM666 said is nonsense with regard to the original meaning of government limitations, because every government of every state on this planet limits speech.period. Nobody has "absolute " free speech, and frankly, nobody wants. Did he conflate this with the other two on purpose? I dont now, but he seemingly did, trying to shove a popular fantasy down our throats about "america the free" which it isnt, by a fair margin, in many regards.

And thnx for pointing out that the USA ranks far below, and not at, 1st regarding freedom of press.

[Thumpalumpacus]

The Afd did not emerge because some peoples (hate) speech was curtailed. The AfD emerged because it created a public platform for hate speech. It emerged because it made hate speech socially acceptable.

I didn't say those laws caused the AfD. My point is that even with those laws in place, those sentiments never went away, they only went underground.

[Ivan Denisovich]

The Afd did not emerge because some peoples (hate) speech was curtailed. The AfD emerged because it created a public platform for hate speech. It emerged because it made hate speech socially acceptable.

I didn't say those laws caused the AfD. My point is that even with those laws in place, those sentiments never went away, they only went underground.

Those sentiments will never go away entirely I'm afraid but driving them underground is preferable to having them in the open. Reasoned, measured speech does not score lasting victories against fascism as your recent elections should prove. If fascism is allowed into public sphere it is one step closer to the triumph and then it will continue to infect the country until beaten back by force. To use another recent example - PM of supposedly liberal coalition gov that beaten former fascist ruling party want to suspend right to asylum and thus also polish constitution and various binding international agreements.

You could say that fascism was beaten back by words and votes, without force. Was it really? Fascism already infected political scene and won't disappear by means of gentle persuasion.

[Nanny]

^read Ianesco's Rhinoceros.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhinoceros_(play)

[Pat Mustard]

Criticism and denigration are two very different things. Racists like to think they’re the same, though.

Boru

Edit: Inextricably linked to free speech is freedom of the press. The UK is rated 23rd in the world, while the US clocks in at 55th place. Cool, huh?

I think that even hate speech should be allowed, for the simple fact that countering it is punching at air if it's stifled. Drive it underground, no one takes it seriously, and now we have AfD in Germany.

I like knowing who are the bigots, and think taking them on is useful.

The AfD came about because the Soviets wove the Nazis into the East German state, largely through membership of the Stasi. That left the far-right ample space to fester in the eastern parts of Germany, as long as they paid as much lip service to communism as the Politburo did.

There is a reason why the AfD are an exclusively East German phenomenon. There was no real reckoning over the Nazi period in the East.