Thoughts on Buddhism

[Abracadabra]

I was discussing spiritual ideas in the thread created to discuss said spiritual ideas. But if you'd rather not continue the discussion, that is fine with me.

And as far as science goes, there is a huge difference between developing theories based on previous knowledge and observed phenomena versus making up ideas out of thin air and attaching supernatural terms to them.

Oh please, give me a break.

String theorists had to invent unseen dimensions of space out of thin air in order to create their theories.

Scientists scientists do that sort of things all the time.

Also, editing your posts I've already responded to kind of confuses a discussion.

The only reasons I ever edit a post is to correct typos, spelling, and/or formatting errors.

[RW_9]

Oh please, give me a break.

String theorists had to invent unseen dimensions of space out of thin air in order to create their theories.

Scientists scientists do that sort of things all the time.

This still doesn't resolve the question of why you insist on using nonsensical spiritual terms? Even if a scientist had to invent terms for a theory, they are still using and inventing scientific terms and theories. It has nothing to do with the question of why you choose to use spiritual terms.

The only reasons I ever edit a post is to correct typos, spelling, and/or formatting errors.

My mistake then.

[Abracadabra]

This still doesn't resolve the question of why you insist on using nonsensical spiritual terms? Even if a scientist had to invent terms for a theory, they are still using and inventing scientific terms and theories. It has nothing to do with the question of why you choose to use spiritual terms.

If you find the term "spirituality" so annoying, may I ask for a potential alternative term that would convey a similar idea?

Notice at the top of my post where it says "Religious Views: Gnostic Atheist Agnostic Spiritualist".

I'm using the term to simply to mean that I'm open to the possibility that at the truest level of reality we may indeed be some sort of immortal eternal conscious beings that are basically dreaming up this world, or participating it in some form.

To me, that's a "spiritual" idea. It doesn't need to be Zeus-like, or anything like that. Perhaps that's just your own personal take on the term. Maybe when you see the term "spirit" you think of ghosts and goblins. And you've made that sort of association with the term.

In fact, I'm sure you can find dictionary definitions that were written by authors who also view the term in that way.

Here's a definition that seems to convey my meaning of the term fairly:

spir·it·u·al/ˈspiriCHo͞oəl/
Adjective:
Of, relating to, or affecting the human spirit or soul as opposed to material or physical things.

So I accept that this "spirit" or "soul" or whatever you want to call it, is non-physical (at least in the sense of the physics of our spacetime universe)

That's the very type of concept that I'm considering.

So why not refer to it as "spiritual"

It sure seems to be the proper word to use as far as I can tell.

I'm definitely considering that the true essence of reality is being "non-physical" in terms of what we consider to be the physics of spacetime.

Absolutely.

So what's wrong with using a term that describes what I'm considering?

[RW_9]

My frustration with it is that you are focusing on something so outlandishly plausible that it could be anything, and thus it has no point. It is literally nothing more than randomly labeling the unknown. It serves no purpose and has no logical benefit whatsoever. It may sound tame compared to other pointlessly random things (you can't prove I'm not guided by telepathic pixies!), but it is just as pointless and unfounded.

[reverendjeremiah]

I was discussing spiritual ideas in the thread created to discuss said spiritual ideas. But if you'd rather not continue the discussion, that is fine with me.

And as far as science goes, there is a huge difference between developing theories based on previous knowledge and observed phenomena versus making up ideas out of thin air and attaching supernatural terms to them.

Oh please, give me a break.

String theorists had to invent unseen dimensions of space out of thin air in order to create their theories.

Scientists scientists do that sort of things all the time.

Look man, unless you have a degree in Quantum Mechanics then stop making shit up. Suggesting that scientists make shit up all the time...well...what little respect I might have had for you is completely lost now.

I grow tired of your lies and your ignorance.

---

Considering possibilities doesn't necessarily mean that I wish for them to be true. It just means that I'm considering that they might be true.

Besides, don't scientists do a very similar thing?

Aren't String Theorists hopefully wishing that strings are real?

Aren't scientists currently hopefully wishing that the Higgs field is real?

What about supersymmetry , etc, etc, etc.

Science is always "wish-thinking" before things are confirmed.

And sometimes they don't get their wish.

At one time many scientists were wishing that the universe was finite and static. Too bad for them that Hubble discovered otherwise.

Many scientists wished that Newtonian absolute space and time could be maintained forever. Einstein pulled the rug out from under those wishes.

Science is really nothing more than a list of wishes that actually came true for certain scientists. We don't even bother keeping track of all the wishes that went down the proverbial toilet.

Its obvious that you have ZERO idea of what science is about. You build up a strawman of "Scientists make shit up" and then use it to excuse the fact that you are making shit up and to also make it seem as if your made up spirit bullshit is "just as scientific" as Quantum mechanics.

You are horribly ignorant to the scientific method.

[Abracadabra]

Look man, unless you have a degree in Quantum Mechanics then stop making shit up. Suggesting that scientists make shit up all the time...well...what little respect I might have had for you is completely lost now.

I grow tired of your lies and your ignorance.

I'm sorry that you are perceiving our conversations in such a negative light.

That was certainly never my intent.

Its obvious that you have ZERO idea of what science is about. You build up a strawman of "Scientists make shit up" and then use it to excuse the fact that you are making shit up and to also make it seem as if your made up spirit bullshit is "just as scientific" as Quantum mechanics.

You are horribly ignorant to the scientific method.

The scientific method is extremely simple and straight forward.

First you create a hypothesis. It doesn't matter how you come up with it. You could make one up entirely on whimsical fantasy. The origin of your hypothesis is totally irrelevant to the scientific method.

All that the is required for the scientific method is that your hypothesis can be tested via observations and/or experiment in a way that is consistent and repeatable so that other scientists can test it independently as well.

Once your hypothesis has been tested, you can then either dismiss it as being wrong (i.e. it failed the test of its own predictions), or you can demonstrate that it is correct (i.e. the predictions it makes can be verified to be true)

And that's all there is to the scientific method.

And scientist most certainly do "make up shit" and test it. In most cases the shit they make up fails to pan out. That's not a problem. At least they rule something out when they do that and they learn something.

For example, the Higgs field is "made up shit". And now they are testing that hypothesis to see if it pans out. If they find evidence for the Higgs field they will all rejoice. If they don't find it, they will probably find something else, and then they will rejoice that they found something NEW and soon everyone will completely forget about the made up shit about a "Higgs field".

It's going to have to go one way or the other. They'll either find it or stumble across something else whilst their are searching for it.

Same thing goes for strings, and supersymmetry, etc.

I know exactly how science works. It's no mystery.

In the case of the Higgs field they'll probably find it. I don't think Dr. Higgs just made his hypothesis up on a pure whim. He most likely has pretty solid reasons for believing that this field actually exists.

I'm not claiming that all scientists are pulling their hypotheses out of a rabbit's hat. But clearly some of them are.

Leonards Susskind's original recognition that quarks can act like strings or rubber bands was a hypothesis that was born out of mathematical insight as he was studying the mathematical descriptions of quarks.

But some of the more esoteric "Brane Theory" or "M-Theory" that has evolved from that original insight does indeed reek of people just making up whimsical things out of thin air. In fact, they basically confess that this is indeed what they are doing. They are grasping at purely abstract mathematical ideas to see what they can come up with out of pure imagination and unbounded mathematics (mathematics not restrained by rational limitations such as 3-D space, etc.)

If their mathematics needs 11 dimensions then no problem, they demand that nature must have 11 dimensions in order to fit their esoteric whimsical theories.

If you don't believe that this is what they do then you are the one who doesn't understand what scientists have been up to lately.

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Edited because of a bad quote tag. The message wasn't showing up at all.

[Epimethean]

Tat t'vam asi ~~~ You are God ~~~ but since only your ego is thinking this I take that back.

[Abracadabra]

My frustration with it is that you are focusing on something so outlandishly plausible that it could be anything, and thus it has no point. It is literally nothing more than randomly labeling the unknown. It serves no purpose and has no logical benefit whatsoever. It may sound tame compared to other pointlessly random things (you can't prove I'm not guided by telepathic pixies!), but it is just as pointless and unfounded.

Well, like I said, this thread was supposed to be "Thoughts on Buddhism" which would include Eastern Mystical thoughts, which I'm attempting to address.

Of course none of this stuff can be scientifically tested. I'm not proposing this for scientific investigation.

I'm just offering THOUGHTS on Buddhism (and Eastern Mystical spiritual ideas).

Just like the TOPIC is supposed to be about.

Why are you guys getting so upset about this?

It's not like I'm in a science forum demanding that I have proved the existence of a spiritual world or something.

I'm just addressing FOOD FOR THOUGHT on spiritual ideas especially those of Eastern Mysticism and Buddhism, etc.

Sheesh.

You guys are acting like I broke into the LHC with an AK47 demanding that they test for my Goddess Particle.

[RW_9]

Well, like I said, this thread was supposed to be "Thoughts on Buddhism" which would include Eastern Mystical thoughts, which I'm attempting to address.

Of course none of this stuff can be scientifically tested. I'm not proposing this for scientific investigation.

I'm just offering THOUGHTS on Buddhism (and Eastern Mystical spiritual ideas).

Just like the TOPIC is supposed to be about.

Why are you guys getting so upset about this?

It's not like I'm in a science forum demanding that I have proved the existence of a spiritual world or something.

I'm just addressing FOOD FOR THOUGHT on spiritual ideas especially those of Eastern Mysticism and Buddhism, etc.

Sheesh.

You guys are acting like I broke into the LHC with an AK47 demanding that they test for my Goddess Particle.

I'm not upset. Like I said earlier, if you don't wish to continue the conversation that is fine with me. It seems to have ended now, anyway.

[Abracadabra]

I'm not upset. Like I said earlier, if you don't wish to continue the conversation that is fine with me. It seems to have ended now, anyway.

Well, not only has it ended, but apparently it never was.

I mean, in terms of the actual topic of the thread.

I was attempting to address the topic of the thread, and all you guys kept doing was acting like the topic isn't even worthy of discussing.

Well, gee whiz, if you felt that way why did you ever bother to come into the thread in the first place?

That's what I would like to know.