Messengers/Message

[Epimethean]

So god is a BDSM practitioner identifying as a sadistic dominant.

[Angrboda]

He is existentially gripped by the question of which church is right. And so with the insecurity that that created in him, and the uncertainty, he decides he needs to find out for himself. And he goes into this grove of trees, and he gets this thundering, spectacular theophany. He describes how intense the light was and how afraid he was that when it touched the trees, they would burst into flame. He was actually scared. And in that pillar of light appear two persons, the father and the son.

When Joseph Smith saw them, he saw embodied beings. He saw men the way you and I would see men, with all the biblical features the way Moses said he saw them, with eyes and ears and hands and faces.

He was blessed, I think, to be visited by God the father and by his son, Jesus Christ. And in that moment, he still had the presence of mind to ask and to fulfill the purpose for which he came, which, interestingly, wasn't to ask "Is there a true church?" I've always been struck, honestly, with the question he posed. "Which of the churches is true?" And the answer was that none of them was, and that was an earth-shaking answer. I'm sure it came as a very big surprise to him.

He came from a tradition of visionaries. And his father had dreams, his grandfather had dreams, and so it was nothing new for him, as well, to feel that he had had some kind of heavenly communication.

In the beginning, Joseph would tell only his family about what happened in the grove. Over the years, he would record several versions of what he saw.

Greg Prince, author:
"The first version of the vision was written in Joseph Smith's own hand in 1832. It was personal. It merely dealt with his sinfulness and his going to the grove to ask God for forgiveness. End of story. Subsequently, over the next 12 years, there were other versions that emerged from Joseph Smith, where the story got more detailed and more colorful. And one of the later versions became the official version."

— from "The Mormons", an American Experience / Frontline special

[Drich]

[quote='apophenia' pid='300660' dateline='1339992320']



[quote]So, when good things come your way, it's because of God. And when bad things come along, it's a gift from God, helping you develop your strength. Wow, I like them odds. How much does the house take?[/quote]How are you in a position to judge any of these things I mentioned 'good or bad?" They happened to me and I do not think I have that right. For the things my knee jerk reaction says are bad were the best things to happen to me. and the things that were good seem to inspire lazyness and luke warm complancy. Bottom line experiences are neither good or bad. They just are. What makes them good or bad is how you deal with them.


[quote]If I'm not misreading you, you concluded that this gentleman who was "something like that" was a messenger from God,[/quote]I start saying is I don't know if he was a proper Angel or if he simply carried a message from God. Simply carring the message technically makes one an angel, but does not nessarily mean one is a spirit based being who lives with God "Angel"

[quote] and that these flashes in your mind, and words coming to present from you are a result of God, rather than simply intuitions or abilities you already have?[/quote]This is a 'new ablity' It is not something I could do before I developed a relationship with God.

[quote] It sounds to me that you believe in God, therefore anything and everything is a result of God.[/quote]Not everything for I can do things on my own as my life before christianity proves.

[quote]That's a self-fulfilling prophecy. How do you know the guy wasn't one of Satan's minions? They're certainly "something like" an angel, and it's said they can appear as an angel of light.[/quote]Because what was promised was also promised in scripture for those who ask seek and knock for the gift of the Holy Spirit.He simply was conveying which Spiritual gifts I was to receive and how they were to be used.

[quote]So we have things being interpreted as from God regardless of whether they are good or bad, and attributing things to God without any clear sign they are of God. And you wonder why we're skeptical of your thoughts about God?[/quote]I seems like your skeptical, because you are measuring or judging God by a standard in which best suits your needs.


[quote]Beyond that, the question of foretelling events. Several things need to be true. The foretelling has to be specific enough for its success to be unambiguous, it has to be sufficiently unusual that it could not be expected to occur by chance alone, it has to be something that didn't or couldn't come to pass as a consequence of believing in the foretelling (e.g. if you are told you will be successful, and therefore take chances in business, the telling is tainted by your knowledge). But probably most importantly, you have to measure the successful predictions against the failed predictions. Without knowing the full list of (potential) predictions, the hits are worth nothing. And cold readers can convince us of great powers of prediction based on reading you, and using the Barnum effect. [/quote]2/3s of them have been full filled the remaining 1/3 remain on the horizon.

[quote]I also find your posting this and then claiming "privacy" when challenged for details to be not a little disingenuous. Either you're willing to witness for God or you aren't. You say that you wrote this all down immediately afterward. Provide your original written account or go away.[/quote]tough tacos. Because these events were given to me to help me stay on my path. The only reason I am communicating them to you is so that those interested in having their own 'meeting' can know where to start. I owe you nothing more than what I can provide. For personal reasons know I can not provide any more than I have already said.

[quote](Btw, it's perfectly understandable that you would remember a face rather than a name, that's how the mind works; still, you did write it down right after.)[/quote]I have spent 15 mins here, and I read your screen name when I started but still do not remember who you are now. So Even though I wrote down what happened a few hours after, I still do not remember the man's name.

[Drich]

No God called some of them to great humility. For He must break those deeply whom He intends to use greatly. God was there for them. They were not there for God.

Bull..Fucking..Shit! How fucking stupid/gullible do you have to be to believe what you said? Abject stupidity might just be the dark energy that physicists stay awake all night looking for.

Are you suggesting that the ten year old boy that took a cock in the ass from Sandusky was being 'broken' for humility's sake, in order to serve a higher purpose? Was the ten year old not there for god?

Maybe, maybe not it depends on the person and whether or not he is willing to use siad experience to the glory of God or if he coloapses in on himself. It depends on the person and what he or she will do with what has happened. I was younger when it started happening to me. I shut down for a while, and did not seek to be the person my father wanted me to be, which triggered a whole host of other disasterous childhood memories. Again the events in of themselves are meaningless until the supposed victim decides how to manage and process what happened.

Granted it is not a childhood that you would plan for your son or daughter, but understand and accept that this version of childhood is no less valid. To say someone is damaged or broken just because someone did have to endure something most did not, is foolishness. The trial should not be the deciding factor on how a person is viewed. It how they managed the event and what they have done with the experience.

This soceity places far too much importance on living with in a very tight set of prameters, and those outside of those living conditions, are left outside as soceity does not know what to do with them. The reality is, those who 'experience' things outside of the norm have the Potential to offer more than those who seek to maintain the status quoe.

This means to me, if it were up to me to choose whether or not I had to relive my childhood given those who I have been able to help (thus far and not counting the people I have yet to encounter) as the result of the trauma I was made to manage on my own, I would do it again so I could help the people I have been able to help.

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I don't pity you but I really think you are fooling yourself and actually am sad that as a adult you appear so guillable.
Those dreams you have about what God is telling you are just dreams. You are going to think what you like and i can't change your mind so........

Manowar

one drean, one instance, one happenstance.. yes I would agree. What would happen if you experienced this every day for the last 20 or so years? Gulliable yes.. now ask why. I believe because I have yet (after 20 years) been lead astray. So if God says go I go, no questions.

I was told to "go" here. For more than a few of you it has changed things.

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No God called some of them to great humility. For He must break those deeply whom He intends to use greatly. God was there for them. They were not there for God.

wow. hey, i won't knock you for feeling what helps you sleep at night, but this kind of thinking is something i can't even fathom. following something which must break you, just so you agree to follow what they say, is just distant to me.

This is written in the Lord's prayer "Thy will be done on Earth as it is in Heaven.." It's not a new concept. For it is written all over the bible. I am not disputing that this concept is foreign to someone who has grown up in the west. because soceity teaches the oppsite. we have fought wars to have this right, so to activly seek the Authority of God to take over your life is no doubt a strange thing.

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wow. hey, i won't knock you for feeling what helps you sleep at night, but this kind of thinking is something i can't even fathom. following something which must break you, just so you agree to follow what they say, is just distant to me.

They have to justify the unexplainable and often horrible random things that happen in a person's life. That's how they do it.

Their god is the king of kings alright ... As most gods are assholes, their god is king of the assholes .... The Asshole King, if you will.




Can you imagine wanting to love, fear and serve something that you know had it in mind to break you?!?
No wonder these stupid bastards are so terrified.

This is an accurate judgement if you only look at the circumstance, and not the whole of the persons life. If my story began and ended with trageity then i would probably have made the same judgement. That not being the case, I have to make a judgement from behind all that I have been given. to which i can only say God is Good.

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For He must break those deeply whom He intends to use greatly.

Couldn't an omnipotent god just create people great to begin with? In fact, instead of having a plan for humanity it seems like he's capable of creating the universe as he wanted right away.

Create yes. Maintain, no. Why? Free will corupts what God has made perfect. Now if we take said free will and give it back to God then His power is made evident in our weakness. Leaving not great people, but Great acts of God committed through His servants.

[Manowar]

That thinking is very dangerous. You say "if God says go I will go no questions". Always question everything for your own good. A few years ago i read about some people like you who believed and no one could talk them out of it. One guy tried and I believe succeeded in cutting off his hand because it offended God, another deluded fellow cut off his manhood If god ever told me to do that I think i would tell God where to go Believing in God is one thing but your are over doing it, remember God of the OT is one crazy S.O.B.

Manowar

[Drich]

That thinking is very dangerous.

It's a double edged sword for sure. That is why one must be sure in whom he is speaking. That is why knoweledge of the bible is paramount. God will never tell you to do something that contradicts scripture.

You say "if God says go I will go no questions". Always question everything for your own good. A few years ago i read about some people like you who believed and no one could talk them out of it. One guy tried and I believe succeeded in cutting off his hand because it offended God, another deluded fellow cut off his manhood If god ever told me to do that I think i would tell God where to go Believing in God is one thing but your are over doing it, remember God of the OT is one crazy S.O.B.

Again this is why knowing the bible is so important. Because God is not the only one who 'speaks.'
I am sure men like Joseph Smith and the other one... mmm.. Mohomad truly thought the were speaking to God/angel of God. An experience like this puts one almost into a state of shock, and without guideance there is no way to tell God's direction from any other. Guideance comes in the written word of the Holy Spirit/Bible.

I chose my words carfully. When God says go I go with no questions. The questions are there to desern who's voice it is that i hear. If God says go, I go.

[Epimethean]

I love how you can discount Mohammed, Smith, et al. as having been wrong all while maintaining that you would possibly know what they couldn't. It's a bullshit frappe.

[Drich]

I love how you can discount Mohammed, Smith, et al. as having been wrong all while maintaining that you would possibly know what they couldn't. It's a bullshit frappe.

What i have done is compared their 'revelation' from the God of the bible to what the bible actually says. Their revelations contradict what the bible teaches. So why would the God of Aberham Isac Moses and Jesus (All agree these men were from the Father) Give them a revelation that contradicts the bible?

If the God of the bible contradicts said bible what is he the god of? Said prophets. Thereby evelating the word of the prophet above the god they repersent.

God will not contradict His own word. If 'he' does the 'he' is not the God of the bible. These two men found a god' to contradict the bible, therefore they found a 'god' to worship other than the God of the bible.

[Epimethean]

Uh, hel-lo. Who wrote the bible? I think this whole thing is a bunch of delusional mumbo jumbo, but I'd say direct experience trumps text any day. And, by the by, who can say whether the bible or koran or torah is more truthful? LOL! They're ALL made up.

[Drich]

Uh, hel-lo. Who wrote the bible? I think this whole thing is a bunch of delusional mumbo jumbo, but I'd say direct experience trumps text any day. And, by the by, who can say whether the bible or koran or torah is more truthful? LOL! They're ALL made up.

Both prohpets acknoweledge the God of the bible and both prophets claim to be the third revelation of God. (The newest testament) The problem comes in when they claim the link to the bible then systematically dismantel it, to recreate a religion in their own image. The logic here does not follow. How can you repersent the God of the bible when your whole effort contradicts the God of the bible. Every phrophet of God has added a to what was written, not destroyed it and rewrote the whole thing.