Atheism

[theVOID]

You were COMPLETELY wrong to call it religious.

Does a rejection of 2012 require faith? NO
Does a rejection of homeopathy require faith? NO
Does a rejection of the god concept require faith? NO

It all comes down to summation of evidence, if evidence is nil reason to believe also = nil, there is nothing wrong with acknowledging the idea but treating it as anything more than an unsupported idea is stupid...

But a rejection of evidence in order to support a belief DOES require faith.

[Retorth]

It depends on which definition you use. Atheism itself is a label, not something you subscribe to (like a religion). If you believe in god, you are a theist; if not, you are an atheist. You don't "believe" in atheism anymore than believing in your blue eyes changes your eye colour.

As atheism itself makes no positive claim (since atheism also covers non-theism), it cannot be held as a belief or any kind of religion. It is a disbelief in the positive claims of theism.

Word for word, my brother. Couldn't have put it better myself...though I wish I read this thread earlier to reply as such hahaha

[Ryft]

Bullshit. The statements are the same.

No, the statements are not the same at all. The first case is the absence of a belief, whereas the second case is the presence of a belief. (And as Darwinian indicated, one shoulders a burden of proof while the other does not.)

[Retorth]

No, the statements are not the same at all. The first case is the absence of a belief, whereas the second case is the presence of a belief. (And as Darwinian indicated, one shoulders a burden of proof while the other does not.)

Yeah I agree as well. Though the statements seem similar, they imply two rather different meanings.

[Kyuuketsuki]

You were COMPLETELY wrong to call it religious.

And I admitted as much ... can't you read?

Does a rejection of 2012 require faith? NO
Does a rejection of homeopathy require faith? NO
Does a rejection of the god concept require faith? NO

Belief/Claim that there is no god is a position of faith! The ASSUMPTION that there is no god until otherwise demonstrated is not! The difference may be slight but it is significant!

It all comes down to summation of evidence, if evidence is nil reason to believe also = nil, there is nothing wrong with acknowledging the idea but treating it as anything more than an unsupported idea is stupid...

It is wrong to claim that something is so when there is no evidence to support that view ... that the god in question won't come out to play means there is no evidence and that supports nothing (positive or negative) but DOES allow one to assume non-existence until otherwise indicated. That is why the Muppets have to resort to arguments like TAG ... metaphysical arguments of that kind are the only thing they have when they have no evidence.

But a rejection of evidence in order to support a belief DOES require faith.

Where did I say it didn't? What I am saying is that a claim that there is no god, in the absence of evidence, is as wrong as the claim there is such a god in the absence of evidence.

Kyu

Kyu

[fr0d0]

that the god in question won't come out to play means there is no evidence and that supports nothing (positive or negative) but DOES allow one to assume non-existence until otherwise indicated.

Please describe to me exactly what evidence you would accept, and I'll prove to you beyond doubt every time how that wouldn't prove in any way remotely God's existence. If I'm right with this, you need to retract your statement that this allows you to assume non existence.

[Samson]

Definition of "Atheist" from a few different sources:

Merriam-Webster OnLine

atheist: one who believes that there is no deity

atheism:
1 archaic : UNGODLINESS, WICKEDNESS
2 a : a disbelief in the existence of deity b : the doctrine that there is no deity




Cambridge Dictionary of American English

atheist: someone who believes that God does not exist

atheism: the belief that God does not exist



Oxford English Dictionary 2nd Ed. 1989

Atheist:
1. One who denies or disbelieves the existence of a God.
2. One who practically denies the existence of a God by disregard of moral obligation to Him; a godless man.
B. attrib. as adj. Atheistic, impious.



The American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition. 2000.

atheist: One who disbelieves or denies the existence of God or gods.

atheism:
1a. Disbelief in or denial of the existence of God or gods. b. The doctrine that there is no God or gods.

2. Godlessness; immorality.



1913 Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary

atheist:
1. One who disbelieves or denies the existence of a God, or supreme intelligent Being.
2. A godless person. [Obs.] Syn. -- Infidel; unbeliever. See Infidel.


atheism:
1. The disbelief or denial of the existence of a God, or supreme intelligent Being.
2. Godlessness.

[Retorth]

The American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition. 2000.

atheist: One who disbelieves or denies the existence of God or gods.

atheism:
1a. Disbelief in or denial of the existence of God or gods. b. The doctrine that there is no God or gods.

2. Godlessness; immorality.

Godlessness I agree with, for obvious reasoning, but immorality? That is utter rubbish. This has the potential for another debate extension lol

"Immorality without religion"

---

Whatever the case may be, 4 out of the 5 dictionary examples you provided defined Atheist accurately, in that an atheist is one who denies the existence of god, not that he "believes there is no god" because, like Darwinian said earlier, to "believe" is to carry the burden of proof, in this case that god does not exist, to which does not exist because Atheists in fact simple disbelieve any existence whatsoever to begin with.

4 out of 5 ain't bad

[Tiberius]

Definition of "Atheist" from a few different sources:

I think it is fair to say that "disbelief" wins as the definition of atheism. All atheists disbelieve in gods, but only some have an active "belief" in god's non-existence. The rest of us are happy without the burden of proof.

[Samson]

Definition of "Atheist" from a few different sources:

I think it is fair to say that "disbelief" wins as the definition of atheism. All atheists disbelieve in gods, but only some have an active "belief" in god's non-existence. The rest of us are happy without the burden of proof.

I agree with that...

I didn't say I agree with all the sources I posted. Just wanted to put it out there for the different perspectives.