America's War on Drugs

[Tobie]

I'm all for legalization of cannabis, although I think there should be a way of limiting people to a certain amount per week or something, because I recall being taught that lots of cannabis can lead to psychotic effects (It was a large amount, however). As far as I know, it has beneficial effects when not used in excess, and legalizing it will give profits to businesses rather than random drug dealers - it won't then be a "gateway drug" either.

[Napoléon]

I'm all for legalization of cannabis, although I think there should be a way of limiting people to a certain amount per week or something, because I recall being taught that lots of cannabis can lead to psychotic effects (It was a large amount, however). As far as I know, it has beneficial effects when not used in excess, and legalizing it will give profits to businesses rather than random drug dealers - it won't then be a "gateway drug" either.

All drugs have negative effects if over-used right? I mean how do you propose they limit people consuming alcohol? You can't.

Just like everything else weed should be used in moderation.

[thesummerqueen]

I'll have to look it up.

Also anecdotal: The vast majority of smokers I know are all highly intelligent people. I do know a few who might fit the stereotype of dirty hippies, and I know a few who are fairly average working-class Americans, but (and this is probably a biased sampling based on my circle of friends) most are people with varying heights of high IQ scores, very successful jobs, and proactive mindsets. They are goal-oriented, usually pretty organized, brilliantly creative in one facet or another, and by all outward appearances "normal". They smoke for the same reason I drink (I don't smoke because of my all-smoke allergy and I don't have a vaporizer [the boyfriend is going to change that in some way, Syn, before you ask again]). They want to relax their minds (which usually are constantly moving). These are not people who, if pot were legalized, would suddenly devolve into degenerate behavior. They are responsible, tax-paying, charity-giving, world-enhancing adults who ought not to be punished for enjoying a drug that actually is safer than booze.

As to the less-safe drugs, regulating them in much the same way as alcohol seems good to me. Instead of people buying dangerous stuff off the streets and using it in dangerous ways ANYWAY, teaching them in realistic and scientific ways in school as part of the required health program will help them understand what the ill effects are if they should do it and also having a regulation means you can monitor the quality - and tax it.

Alcohol damages your body in excess. During prohibition, when it was illegal, people laced it with all sorts of shit, including embalming fluid. Now it's subject to the same laws as other legal foods - you can't put that shit in there without getting punished (if you're operating legally) and people can trust that what they get from a legal still/brewery is consumable. Imagine if we did the same to all the other stuff we have going on out there.

[kılıç_mehmet]

Legalize that shit. Anecdotally I can tell you right now I'd rather deal with 30 stoners than 3 drunkards.

I'd deal with none, if I had the chance. I can tell you here and now, that most drunkards, and most stoners, and other types of junkies are people of low education, low life standards, and people who have faced serious problems in their past.

Life, and drugs subsequently, are what you make of them.

I agree. However I do not really concern myself with what YOU do of them. Therefore I am not opposed to the legalisation of drugs for people who wish to use them. This is a matter that concerns the people who use them.
But allowing legal sales and production of illicit drugs is something that concerns the whole lot of society, even those who do not participate in drug use, because that is bound to allow for an increase of drug users, from all ages.
And since you propose that it should be taxed, you're practically suggesting that the government should disregard social order and stability for simple monetary gain which will in turn, be used to probably clean after the mess of what these drugs, after becoming legal, have done to society.

This isn't a "drug" problem - it's a self-esteem and ignorance problem.

In whole, that doesn't concern anyone. It's not me who is going to tell people how to get over their psychological issues. They can use marijuana or any other drug if they wish to do so.

I've yet to hear any health risks from marijuana though.

This isn't about health risks. I know that marijuana, not being something that you do on a regular basis if you are someone who can't afford it, or can't afford it due to other factors that keep you from spending time on getting stoned, will not cause your death.
It won't even cause half of the diseases that cigarettes do, for a person can smoke many cigarettes a day, some smoke 40, some 20 some less, or some even more.
My uncle used to smoke up to 60 cigarettes a day, which would amount to 2.5 cigarettes an hour. Tell me, how many joints can smoke in one day? How many bongs?
You just cannot really smoke enough to have a serious ill effect that could put your life in serious risk by just smoking marijuana.

However, marijuana, like all drugs, cause you to focus on yourself alone. You just sit there, in thoughts, laughing to yourself, or dreaming about something for how long the drug takes it. If you have a steady supply, who's going to stop you?
If these things were to be legalized for sale and production, I'm sure the popularity of illicit drugs would match those of cigarettes and alcohol.
It's like gambling. Gambling doesn't cause your death by any physical means. Nor does gamling intend to impoverish people, or cause social collapse.
But in my country, gambling is now forbidden by law, and casinos have been closed to stop the ever growing numbers of gamblers, people who have been blinded by the promise of "easy money", but instead end up losing, but never giving up hope...
Same with illicit drugs, including marijuana, and also alcohol. They offer things to people, especially the impoverished, and rather lower class citizens of a country. And it is there where they take hold, while swelling the ranks of the lower classes by causing the downfall of people from the middle class.
This is why illicit drugs should never be made legal for sale and production, especially in places like the US.

Now to alcohol is a drug or not issue.

Yes, many have quoted things from different websites. I'm already familiar with this. In the same way, coffee, can also be classified as a "drug" perhaps, it does not have the same effect as alcohol, but it certainly soothes you, and is quite addictive, and I ought to admit that I'm a caffeine addict.
However, I'm not sure what kind of an influence my caffeine addiction has on my life, or the people that live around me.

On the other hand, alcohol does not share the same public acceptance as alcohol, and never did.
And it was not used by the people under the same context, either.
It being classified as a "drug" doesn't mean it's the same as ilicit drugs.

If you would have compared it to cigarettes, I'd said, yeah, okay.
It does share the same social aspects to a degree, and is harmful to society as a whole, while providing no benefits.

[frankiej]

I'd deal with none, if I had the chance. I can tell you here and now, that most drunkards, and most stoners, and other types of junkies are people of low education, low life standards, and people who have faced serious problems in their past.

That just isn't true. Some might call me a stoner and I have had a high level of education and I haven't had to face anything serious in life so far. I just fucking love weed.

[kılıç_mehmet]

I'd deal with none, if I had the chance. I can tell you here and now, that most drunkards, and most stoners, and other types of junkies are people of low education, low life standards, and people who have faced serious problems in their past.

That just isn't true. Some might call me a stoner and I have had a high level of education and I haven't had to face anything serious in life so far. I just fucking love weed.

Yeah, that could be, and I also know people that have used cannabis in the past, or still using cannabis casually(not more than once or twice a month or two months).
But I could certainly say that the numbers of stoners are a lot higher amongst the lower stratas of society, which I attribute to the higher stress that these people face and the lack of other recreational activities that these people can participate in, due to their lack of funds.
They just don't have anything else to do with their leisure time.
If not using marijuana, they use alcohol.
People who are chronic marijuana users are rarely people who are of middle class(i.e. better education, better familial values, better social standing overall).
Besides, I'm fairly skeptical whether you will continue to be the stoner you are once you have a wife, kids, a good job, neighbors and hopefully, grandchildren in the future.
I doubt it. People of young age generally tend to do such things. I do it myself. I use marijuana with friends not more than ten times a year maybe. But there was a time when I was heavily involved with toluene, a chemical that I used to sneak out from the school laboratory, or buy from vendors in the form of glue, that used toluene as it's primary solvent.. During that time, my social life and grades have gone downhill, and even though I felt no physical need to use it, I felt a psychological need. It's quite better than marijuana(in terms of hallucinogenic effects), and has no visible short term physical effects.

[KichigaiNeko]

I'll have to look it up.

Also anecdotal: The vast majority of smokers I know are all highly intelligent people. I do know a few who might fit the stereotype of dirty hippies, and I know a few who are fairly average working-class Americans, but (and this is probably a biased sampling based on my circle of friends) most are people with varying heights of high IQ scores, very successful jobs, and proactive mindsets. They are goal-oriented, usually pretty organized, brilliantly creative in one facet or another, and by all outward appearances "normal". They smoke for the same reason I drink (I don't smoke because of my all-smoke allergy and I don't have a vaporizer [the boyfriend is going to change that in some way, Syn, before you ask again]). They want to relax their minds (which usually are constantly moving). These are not people who, if pot were legalized, would suddenly devolve into degenerate behavior. They are responsible, tax-paying, charity-giving, world-enhancing adults who ought not to be punished for enjoying a drug that actually is safer than booze.

As to the less-safe drugs, regulating them in much the same way as alcohol seems good to me. Instead of people buying dangerous stuff off the streets and using it in dangerous ways ANYWAY, teaching them in realistic and scientific ways in school as part of the required health program will help them understand what the ill effects are if they should do it and also having a regulation means you can monitor the quality - and tax it.

Alcohol damages your body in excess. During prohibition, when it was illegal, people laced it with all sorts of shit, including embalming fluid. Now it's subject to the same laws as other legal foods - you can't put that shit in there without getting punished (if you're operating legally) and people can trust that what they get from a legal still/brewery is consumable. Imagine if we did the same to all the other stuff we have going on out there.

Absolutely!! Can I give MORE Kudos?...please?

[thesummerqueen]

Kilic, you're falling into your own bias.

[Faith No More]

It being classified as a "drug" doesn't mean it's the same as ilicit drugs.

As someone who used to work at a liquor store, I can tell you that the only difference between alcohol and illicit drugs is the legal status. Other than that, it is exactly like other drugs in the sense that it is highly addictive and it physically and mentally destroys the user. Day after day I watched alcoholics come in ravaged by their addiction, spending the last dime they could find under their couch for their next "fix." Anything you can or have said against illicit drugs can be said about alcohol.

So ask yourself, what is it about alcohol that you are okay with it being legal?

[Napoléon]

Now to alcohol is a drug or not issue.

.....

If you would have compared it to cigarettes, I'd said, yeah, okay.
It does share the same social aspects to a degree, and is harmful to society as a whole, while providing no benefits.

Dude you have never got completely rat arsed have you? You clearly don't know how powerful of an effect alcohol can have. Sipping on a glass of wine is ofcourse not the same as a joint of weed. Going out and getting absolutely smashed is on a whole different level to having a joint of weed though.

"It being classified as a "drug" doesn't mean it's the same as ilicit drugs."

How much evidence to the contrary does one have to direct you to in order for you to accept that what you're saying is complete bollocks.

The truth is, what constitutes drugs as illegal to many countries around the world has nothing to do with how dangerous a drug it is.



Take a look at this graph.

Notice how alcohol scores higher on the harm rating than not only marijuana (cannabis), but LSD, ecstasy, tobacco, amphetamines and ketamines.


I have to also pick out this from your response earlier:
"This is why illicit drugs should never be made legal for sale and production, especially in places like the US."

All of the arguments you made before saying that, can be applied (and were) to whatever drug you choose. Alcohol, weed, tobacco, even things like gambling as you mentioned.

The trouble is, there is no consistency with the law.

Some of these things are outlawed yet others are completely legal, despite some of them clearly being more dangerous than others.

Now if your stand point is that all drugs should be outlawed because all drugs are dangerous, I can accept that. If that's the case Mehmet you should be taking equal case with not just weed but alcohol. You don't seem to be doing that here.

My position however is that all drugs should be legal because we should have the freedom to put into our body what we want, no matter how stupid that thing you want to put into your body is. I specifically take issue, with the governments of not just my country but many around the world, who see fit to pick out the drugs which provide THEM with the most benefits (ie money), and chastise us for using drugs which THEY don't approve of.