Aurelius seals the deal?

[Eilonnwy]

I don't know. Atheists may want to murder, rape, and pillage but don't because they think it's not worth getting in trouble over...who knows. You could provide a list of all the things you do and your motives for doing them, your overall life goal, etc for analysis/critique.

That's an absurd thing to suggest on both counts. Atheists and other non-religious people are capable of being just as moral (if not more so, in some cases) as religious folk. Secondly, I'm not going to have you, someone with a gross misunderstanding of atheists, analyze my life. I will say this much, I don't go around murdering because I'm afraid of getting caught, I don't do it because I know it's wrong and I give to charity on a regular basis. I have, in fact, written an article about subjective vs objective morality, you can read it if you wish.

If you want to believe being devout means being good, fine. Believe what you want, it's you're privilege. But may I remind you that the 9/11 suicide bombers and abortion doctor killers, and the witch hunters, and the fighters of the crusades, the inquisitors from the middle ages...they were all devout believers.

If you believe in unjust gods then being devout doesn't mean being good (which applies to all of your examples I guess).

With the exception of the 9/11 attackers, the other examples had to do with people who believed in the Christian god. So you admit the Christian god is unjust?

How is worshipping the just gods any different from being good - i.e. doing as the just gods will? How could the just gods not care if you showed your devotion by being good? Instead, you showed your lack of devotion (which doesn't bother them apparently) by living for vice instead of virtue? Why would they welcome you anyway? In my opinion Aurelius' statement doesn't make sense.

Because you refuse to accept that worshiping and being a good person are not the same thing. Many people are good people whether they believe in a different god than your god, or no god at all. Your refusal to accept that Christianity does not hold the monopoly on good people, and in fact has promoted many evils in this world, is not our failing but yours.

[Overmars]

Aurelius's statement is clear and simple, what is so hard to understand? It's very simple and easy to understand. There should no additional explanations to it, if you can't understand it than it's your problem.

[Retorth]

In the styling of Yoda:

Clear and simple, it is....but complicated by some, it has become.

[Demonaura]

I can't read most the stuff since the response as I have class in a few moments but, I'll try to make this quick.

It seems to me the OP here has it set in his head that you need god to be good. I care about those who come after me because I have a conscience and basic morality, I care about my fellow humans because that's how we get through our daily lives. I was raised to be a decent person and to consider that others around me want to live good, happy lives as much as I do.

In all honestly, living just for myself would not bring me happiness, and certainly serving some egotistical, megalomaniacal deity would not. I am happy because I can live with myself, in a good life and know that with so little effort as living my life clean I can help ensure others get the same chances I do. It really is simple, the world does not revolve around me.

So how can I be good without kissing the ass of some bigger entity? Just how I am, I realise that others have lives to live as well and seek not only to live a good life of my own but, where possible to help those others do the same.



To quote Lennon "You may say I'm a dreamer but, I'm not the only one" - Imagine.

[Retorth]

As I have said in another post, we strive for that illusive perfection in life. That is what keeps us progressing and moving forward.

[Rhizomorph13]

I do not strive for perfection, I strive to meet my needs as per Maslow. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maslow's_hi...y_of_needs

Rhizo

[Retorth]

Interesting. Well if to you this is perfect then it is the 'perfection' per se that you strive for then.

[Rhizomorph13]

Nope, perfection is a myth. There is no nominal morality. I work from a untilitarian ideal to decide how to handle distributive problems within a group. Chaos is the operating principle in our universe so I act chaotically to honor that fact. Given enough samples, all things fit within a gaussian distribution. Order from Chaos. I also believe that language fails to fully capture and transmit thoughts. There is evidence of that all over this site.

Cast off the chains of apophenic tendancies. See existence for what it is.

Rhizo

[Retorth]

Certainly sounds reasonable to me.

[Violet]

Only ideas can be 100% ____. So long as there is a reflection of something: it can be no single shade.