So I went looking for evidence of a soul...

[Rhizomorph13]

I figure I want to be on the asserting end of an argument for once.

Kirlian photography was a dead end: http://www.mediacollege.com/photography/types/kirlian/

Aura photography looks like a gimicky joke: http://www.auraphoto.com/

So I would like to introduce Dr. MacDougall: http://www.snopes.com/religion/soulweight.asp

He found out by weighing dying patients that they lose a few grams right at the point of death. His sample size was far too small (6 people!) to be accepted as a conclusive test but with one patient there was a decided drop right at the moment of death. I find it interesting and would be interested in further studies like his.

The main reason I believe in a soul is because of an experience I had where I slowly rose out of my body and saw a silver thread connecting me to my astral body to my physical body. I had never read anything about astral projection so I had no prior knowledge that would lead me to create the hallucination of a silver thread. "The Llewelyn Practical Guide to Astral Projection" talks at length about the silver thread and there were other things that matched my experience.

My idea of a soul does not necessarily posit a seperate body that remains intact after death although it might account for ghost sightings if it did exist at least for a while after death. If there was a part that lived on it would be the spirit and I am pretty sure that doesn't exist. The soul for me would be comprised of the energetic part of the body and the mind.

*Braces for impact as he knows he is about to be laughed off the forums*
Rhizo

[Edwardo Piet]

1. Why would losing weight after death, suddenly jump to the conclusion of it somehow being a "soul?". Isn't that kind of like, God of the gaps, only...'Soul(s) of the gaps' Instead?

2. How is your personal experience evidence? It may be a reason to believe from your point of view, but over 70,000 people...70,000 in Portugal, Fatima, claimed to see the Sun crash to the Earth - but did it happen? Personal experience alone, is not evidence - it's not objective.

3. If the Soul is really immaterial, as it's so often claimed to be ( or even non-physical altogether), how would it have a weight?

EvF

[theblindferrengi]

Perhaps it has something to do with the consious peorson somehow actively exerting force against the scale that a dead person does not do; have they tried weighing sleeping people?

[Edwardo Piet]

On one of the links in the OP, I forgot which one now, it said that the claims could easily be debunked. And one of the suggestions was, that it is simply moisture leaving the body.

Evie

[fr0d0]

I knew this bloke into Shamanism reckoned he could will himself heavier and got me to demonstrate in front of a class me picking him up. I put more effort into picking up the 'heavy' him - he just appeared 'stiffer' if that equates to heavier somehow.

Yes I don't get the weight thing at all. I agree with Evie's description of a non physical entity.

I used to get flashes of floating on the ceiling like my eyes were out the back of my head. Like that movie effect where you zoom out to get a distant perspective.

[Rhizomorph13]

EvF,

So you honestly consider your responses to me well thought out?

1. Why would losing weight after death, suddenly jump to the conclusion of it somehow being a "soul?". Isn't that kind of like, God of the gaps, only...'Soul(s) of the gaps' Instead?

It isn't necessarily proof of a soul but it could lend some insight into what happens after we die.

2. How is your personal experience evidence? It may be a reason to believe from your point of view, but over 70,000 people...70,000 in Portugal, Fatima, claimed to see the Sun crash to the Earth - but did it happen? Personal experience alone, is not evidence - it's not objective.

That fact that you don't believe it does not mean it didn't happen. Besides, I said the reason "I", me, the author of this thread, believe is because of personal experience. The fact that you think I am saying YOU should believe is just your erroneous reading of my post.

3. If the Soul is really immaterial, as it's so often claimed to be ( or even non-physical altogether), how would it have a weight?

When did I say it was immaterial? I said, "The soul for me would be comprised of the energetic part of the body and the mind."

On one of the links in the OP, I forgot which one now, it said that the claims could easily be debunked. And one of the suggestions was, that it is simply moisture leaving the body.

You refer to the Kirlian photography link that I said was a dead end.

The whole point of my thread was to show that there isn't any conclusive, objective evidence of a soul but there might be some interesting follow up to Dr. MacDougall's work.

Rhizo

[Godless]

Where is the repeatable evidence that the body looses weight at death?
Any one can claim anything, anywhere at any time and they sure do!
For it to be valid many others should be able to repeat the experiment, anywhere and at anytime.
Remember Fleischmann-Pons cold fusion?
Albert.

[Rhizomorph13]

Godless,

Yeah, that is why I mentioned that Dr. MacDougall only performed his experiment on 6 people. It is woefully inadequete to be a conclusive experiment and, as EvF pointed out, even if there was weight loss it certainly isn't conlusive evidence of a soul. If the test WAS done more often and the same results were found I would see it as a step towards proving that a soul exists or some other vital part of us, that has weight, leaves upon death. It is a pretty weird experiment and hard to get participants without appearing ghoulish. Hmm, I was expecting harsher posts but I imagine I won't get any because I didn't make any strong assertion.

Rhizo

[Violet]

You naturally exhale from your lungs as your muscles constrict in death... 'moisture leaving the body' sounds like so much bunk... at least the loss of air from one's lungs actually makes sense. o.o

[theblindferrengi]

The air in the lungs would not be measured by the scale if the scale was in an air filled environment, because it would be of equal pressure to the ambient air pressure, and I doubt someone that close to dying can pressuride the air in their lungs.