What if religion never had a "breakthrough"?

[Dax]

I'm not sure if this kind of thread has been made before or if this even is the right part of the forum for this. Either way here it goes.

This is something I often ask myself and I think it's a pretty interesting topic to explore.

Imagine for a second, a world (dimension if you will) where religion never got the same hold of humanity as in "our world".
How do you think such a thing would affect the scientific and technological advancements of humanity? For example, if Christianity never was made up there would have been no dark ages to suppress science and medicine for 500 years, what would the effects of those events have been?

One idea, one I find very likely is that if since science and medicin never had such a setback maybe we'd be at a level of technology and knowlege today equal to 500 years into the future from now.

Of course there could have been other events leading to totally different outcomes but the main idea here is that this "other dimension" never was affected by religon nearly as much.

Anyway, let the brainstorming commence!

[Tea Earl Grey Hot]

Well, we'd still be having wars but it'd be over stuff like Atheism+

[Polaris]

A. The European Dark Ages (476-800 CE) were actually at a time when the Church was at its weakest. They ended when the Church gained dominance in 800 CE when key rulers in Western Europe converted. Of the three major Dark Ages, only the Egyptian was due to religion.

The lack of scientific advancement, especially in the beginning, had more to do with a the collapse of civilization and a decent into anarchy than it had to do with religion. There was ultimately no setback because the Moslems had been at the forefront of advancement in those fields.

[Minimalist]

A. The European Dark Ages (476-800 CE) were actually at a time when the Church was at its weakest. They ended when the Church gained dominance in 800 CE when key rulers in Western Europe converted. Of the three major Dark Ages, on the Egyptian was due to religion.

WTF are you talking about?

[Polaris]

A. The European Dark Ages (476-800 CE) were actually at a time when the Church was at its weakest. They ended when the Church gained dominance in 800 CE when key rulers in Western Europe converted. Of the three major Dark Ages, on the Egyptian was due to religion.

WTF are you talking about?

History. It's study has advanced a lot in the last five hundred years.

[CapnAwesome]

A. The European Dark Ages (476-800 CE) were actually at a time when the Church was at its weakest. They ended when the Church gained dominance in 800 CE when key rulers in Western Europe converted. Of the three major Dark Ages, only the Egyptian was due to religion.

The lack of scientific advancement, especially in the beginning, had more to do with a the collapse of civilization and a decent into anarchy than it had to do with religion. There was ultimately no setback because the Moslems had been at the forefront of advancement in those fields.

I think you have definitely fallen victim to a propagandized view of history. I don't know of any credible historian (I have a degree in history, so this isn't an entirely empty statement) who considers the dark ages to have ended in 800 CE. The mark of the end of the Dark Ages is generally considered to be with the Renaissance, somewhere around the 14th century at the earliest. By what criteria are you saying that the Dark Ages ended around 800? Also it's pretty fair to say that the church dominated Europe when the roman empire collapsed. The countries that hadn't yet been dominated (Such as Ireland or the Scandinavian countries) by Christianity were fairly insignificant, politically and militarily.

Also to completely discredit whatever view of history you are deriving this post from, there have been far more than three 'major' dark ages. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_Ages_%...ademic_use

[jonb]

A. The European Dark Ages (476-800 CE) were actually at a time when the Church was at its weakest. They ended when the Church gained dominance in 800 CE when key rulers in Western Europe converted. Of the three major Dark Ages, only the Egyptian was due to religion.

The lack of scientific advancement, especially in the beginning, had more to do with a the collapse of civilization and a decent into anarchy than it had to do with religion. There was ultimately no setback because the Moslems had been at the forefront of advancement in those fields.

Pratt of the first order. Proving a bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing.
Modern historians no longer use the term European dark ages as I have told you before, but you haven't bothered to cross check your information, because it seems that may interfere with your agenda, why does that not surprise me, could it be something to do with your stupid adherence to a philosophy that postulates some sort of sky daddy?

Firstly for there to be a dark age it, it would have to be 'darker' than the periods on either side of it.

So rather than me writing a wall of text lets start with the Roman Empire. The Roman Empire, more fits the idea of a dark age than anything that replaced it. It was a period of centralist power that stifled development in the arts, philosophy, technology and the sciences.

The Romans had no means of passing on knowledge, remember under their control the Greek academies fell into ruin.

So lets start with technology. the Romans had no structure to reward invention, and it is not surprising nothing was invented in the areas under Roman control while Rome had control of that area, With the exception of Egypt which had the loosest system of governance.

You will find wiki sites saying Roman inventions, but they are referring to inventions of the Mediterranean area. I bet you cannot find two* things invented that work that were invented by Romans, in an area under Roman control, everything the Romans had they copied from others. and during the period of the empire they gradually lost the ability to make those things well.

*I only say two because there is one thing which I cannot prove was not invented by the Romans, it is just probable that it was not.

[Lion IRC]

In heaven, do they actually have religion?

Suppose the dimension you imagine in your thought experiment, is one in which the Higher Being God isnt a matter of belief at all, but taken for granted.

Nobody doubts. There's no religion called atheism. Nobody has existential angst.

There's no war because there's nothing to fight over and everybody is on God's side or they get booted out of His Kingdom. (Garden of Eden / Heaven / etc.)

[Minimalist]

WTF are you talking about?

History. It's study has advanced a lot in the last five hundred years.

Certainly not apparent by the shit you spew out on a daily basis.

[Polaris]

History. It's study has advanced a lot in the last five hundred years.

Certainly not apparent by the shit you spew out on a daily basis.

Look in a mirror lately? You go with whatever idea some nut posts on a website, not coherent with academic standards.

Jonb...we refer to it as the Early Middle Ages (which ends 150-200 years after the date I gave which was the end of the first part of the EMA), but if people are going to use the term Dark Ages, we may as well humor them.

Also the Church dominated during the end of the Roman Empire, but lost much of that control when the power of the Roman Empire declined...it was only strong because the Roman Empire was strong. It was not until after the Moslem invasion that it seemed advantageous for the ruling elite to turn to Christianity.

The Romans invented and built upon advancements with artillery, but they are most known for their contributions to language and law....they were more politicians than inventors.