How the Hypocrite Leftwing Argues

[A Theist]

Also grew up poor, shiftless dad, moved all the time. Like economics, being poor isn't one-sided.

Middle-class and up usually DO have lots of advantages. They generally get to go to better schools, have their parents fund their college education, probably have their first car bought for them, good chance of grandparents chipping in big time on that first house. Through no effort on their part, middle-class (and higher) children get more capital, espescially human capital (marketable skills, confidence in their ability to achieve financial goals, investing practices modeled for them, and so on). Some of these advantaged kids lose those advantages, either from bad luck, or not absorbing the qualities that would help them perpetuate their economic class.

Working poor and down often DO have behaviors that contribute to remaining in their situation. Like the middle-class kids, they were born into their disadvantaged situation to no credit or fault of their own. Their options are more limited, they have less access to any kind of capital (especially including a comparable education), the behaviors they're exposed to are not usually conducive to moving up the economic ladder, but some of them manage to do it anyway, due to genetics or different experiences or good parenting in a bad situation, a mentor, or whatever.

I don't conclude from this that it's pointless to assist the poor. It's pointless to expect assistance aimed at keeping their heads above water to be effective in remedying their situation; not so pointless to expect results-based programs aimed at getting them the skills and behavioral tools to achieve more economically to help more than just food stamps and Medicaid alone.

A harsh reality seems to be that it's not very effective to aim such efforts at adults, except to help them be more effectively supportive of the success of the children. Train the adults to be parents of children who will make it out of poverty and properly educate those children, and you can see real improvement.

I would think a conservative could recognize that spending more now in ways that will make more people less dependent on government assistance in the future is simply a good investment.

"I don't conclude from this that it's pointless to assist the poor. It's pointless to expect assistance aimed at keeping their heads above water to be effective in remedying their situation; not so pointless to expect results-based programs aimed at getting them the skills and behavioral tools to achieve more economically to help more than just food stamps and Medicaid alone."...what you can conclude is that it's pointless to assist the attitudes of apathy, everybody owes me, the selfishness, the laziness, won't sacrifice their leisure time for personal responsibility...all of which prevails through the poor neighborhoods....

"A harsh reality seems to be that it's not very effective to aim such efforts at adults, except to help them be more effectively supportive of the success of the children. Train the adults to be parents of children who will make it out of poverty and properly educate those children, and you can see real improvement."...All easier said than done. The biggest complaint from teachers who work in the poor parts of our school district, (our district includes part of Columbus' slum area), is that no matter what they try, they can't get parents interested enough to even come to PTA meetings and other events at the schools....and it's true. I've seen it....If you can't get these parents to think beyond their self gratification to show the slightest bit of interest in their children's education, how are you going to get them motivated to attend a training program to become better parents?

"I would think a conservative could recognize that spending more now in ways that will make more people less dependent on government assistance in the future is simply a good investment."....I've been hearing that for years...and for years the government has continued to throw money away on one program after another to no avail....unless the people who live in poor areas take on personal responsibility to change their selfish attitudes and to put aside their leisure time, their Bingo games, their drugs and alcohol, and get off their lazy butts and take an active role in getting themselves off the welfare roles, then no amount of government support is going to do one thing to help them...they have to be willing participants in their own success, and I don't see that happening on a very large scale, though there be rare cases.

[Ryantology]

A Theist is doing a great job demonstrating that he has no firsthand experience being poor or around poor people, the most common symptom being the astoundingly ridiculous belief that the shiftless welfare queen drug addict stereotype defines the majority of poor people, and are willing to give the shaft to every deserving recipient of assistance funds in the interest of denying them to the minority who misuse them.

The biggest complaint from teachers who work in the poor parts of our school district, (our district includes part of Columbus' slum area), is that no matter what they try, they can't get parents interested enough to even come to PTA meetings and other events at the schools....and it's true. I've seen it....If you can't get these parents to think beyond their self gratification to show the slightest bit of interest in their children's education, how are you going to get them motivated to attend a training program to become better parents?

As you can see here, the Fox News Drone's only explanation for this is that parents just don't care because they want to play xbox or something. It would never occur to him that perhaps the parent/parents are too busy working and do not have the luxury to be able to take unpaid time off (during business hours) to attend meetings because they worry most about making ends meet.

I grew up in a place where white people were not a majority and my parents were poor until I was in my teens. I saw for myself how poor people live. I saw some who were legitimately lazy people. I saw more who would work multiple backbreaking, poverty-wage jobs just to keep a roof over their heads and feed their kids. People whose entire life was working and sleeping, for years and years with no end in sight. So much time and energy devoted to merely living that there was no chance of them ever getting an education or bettering themselves in any meaningful way.

These are the people Fox News Drones insist do not exist, under the insanity that it is impossible for a person to be a productive member of society if they receive any kind of 'entitlement' money. It is proof that this brand of conservatives cares nothing about the virtue of hard work as they so casually dismiss the desperately hard work done by the poorest people in this country. To this brand of particularly tasteless clown, the only proof of hard work is a fat bank balance. It is ironic that so many millions of poor people are stupid enough to buy into this and vote for the Mitt Romneys of the world whose only interest is keeping them right where they are.

[Faith No More]

A Theist's post highlight a major flaw in the conservative thought process, which is the ability to simplify highly complex issues. Living in poverty means you are lazy, and there are no other factors in play. Forget the lack of education and the fact that poverty is a cycle in which conservatives seem determined to hold the son responsible for the sins of the father. The proper motivation to work hard requires the opportunity to actually benefit from it. Why would you want to work when you're surrounded by people that are born, live, and die in poverty, and the ones that do work hard have a miniscule chance of escaping? When you're going to a school with a 25% graduation rate, how could you be expected to have the skills to function in the real world?

And I'm not so blind as to think that there are no lazy people and that everyone in poverty simply deserves to suck the government teat. No, I think there should be measures in place to ensure that those that are receiving assistance truly need and deserve it, and we need to focus on good education for those in poverty if we wish to end it.

[Tea Earl Grey Hot]

The stereotype of making rich people look like Hedonismbot is equally detestable.

[TaraJo]

Also grew up poor, shiftless dad, moved all the time. Like economics, being poor isn't one-sided.

Middle-class and up usually DO have lots of advantages. They generally get to go to better schools, have their parents fund their college education, probably have their first car bought for them, good chance of grandparents chipping in big time on that first house. Through no effort on their part, middle-class (and higher) children get more capital, espescially human capital (marketable skills, confidence in their ability to achieve financial goals, investing practices modeled for them, and so on). Some of these advantaged kids lose those advantages, either from bad luck, or not absorbing the qualities that would help them perpetuate their economic class.

Working poor and down often DO have behaviors that contribute to remaining in their situation. Like the middle-class kids, they were born into their disadvantaged situation to no credit or fault of their own. Their options are more limited, they have less access to any kind of capital (especially including a comparable education), the behaviors they're exposed to are not usually conducive to moving up the economic ladder, but some of them manage to do it anyway, due to genetics or different experiences or good parenting in a bad situation, a mentor, or whatever.

I don't conclude from this that it's pointless to assist the poor. It's pointless to expect assistance aimed at keeping their heads above water to be effective in remedying their situation; not so pointless to expect results-based programs aimed at getting them the skills and behavioral tools to achieve more economically to help more than just food stamps and Medicaid alone.

A harsh reality seems to be that it's not very effective to aim such efforts at adults, except to help them be more effectively supportive of the success of the children. Train the adults to be parents of children who will make it out of poverty and properly educate those children, and you can see real improvement.

I would think a conservative could recognize that spending more now in ways that will make more people less dependent on government assistance in the future is simply a good investment.

"I don't conclude from this that it's pointless to assist the poor. It's pointless to expect assistance aimed at keeping their heads above water to be effective in remedying their situation; not so pointless to expect results-based programs aimed at getting them the skills and behavioral tools to achieve more economically to help more than just food stamps and Medicaid alone."...what you can conclude is that it's pointless to assist the attitudes of apathy, everybody owes me, the selfishness, the laziness, won't sacrifice their leisure time for personal responsibility...all of which prevails through the poor neighborhoods....

"A harsh reality seems to be that it's not very effective to aim such efforts at adults, except to help them be more effectively supportive of the success of the children. Train the adults to be parents of children who will make it out of poverty and properly educate those children, and you can see real improvement."...All easier said than done. The biggest complaint from teachers who work in the poor parts of our school district, (our district includes part of Columbus' slum area), is that no matter what they try, they can't get parents interested enough to even come to PTA meetings and other events at the schools....and it's true. I've seen it....If you can't get these parents to think beyond their self gratification to show the slightest bit of interest in their children's education, how are you going to get them motivated to attend a training program to become better parents?

"I would think a conservative could recognize that spending more now in ways that will make more people less dependent on government assistance in the future is simply a good investment."....I've been hearing that for years...and for years the government has continued to throw money away on one program after another to no avail....unless the people who live in poor areas take on personal responsibility to change their selfish attitudes and to put aside their leisure time, their Bingo games, their drugs and alcohol, and get off their lazy butts and take an active role in getting themselves off the welfare roles, then no amount of government support is going to do one thing to help them...they have to be willing participants in their own success, and I don't see that happening on a very large scale, though there be rare cases.

Dude. Did you bother to read what we posted? Are you unable to comprehend anything that hasn't been said by Faux News? Whether you're poor or not has far more to do with whether your parents were poor and has far FAR less to do with work ethic.

[A Theist]

A Theist is doing a great job demonstrating that he has no firsthand experience being poor or around poor people, the most common symptom being the astoundingly ridiculous belief that the shiftless welfare queen drug addict stereotype defines the majority of poor people, and are willing to give the shaft to every deserving recipient of assistance funds in the interest of denying them to the minority who misuse them.

The biggest complaint from teachers who work in the poor parts of our school district, (our district includes part of Columbus' slum area), is that no matter what they try, they can't get parents interested enough to even come to PTA meetings and other events at the schools....and it's true. I've seen it....If you can't get these parents to think beyond their self gratification to show the slightest bit of interest in their children's education, how are you going to get them motivated to attend a training program to become better parents?

As you can see here, the Fox News Drone's only explanation for this is that parents just don't care because they want to play xbox or something. It would never occur to him that perhaps the parent/parents are too busy working and do not have the luxury to be able to take unpaid time off (during business hours) to attend meetings because they worry most about making ends meet.

I grew up in a place where white people were not a majority and my parents were poor until I was in my teens. I saw for myself how poor people live. I saw some who were legitimately lazy people. I saw more who would work multiple backbreaking, poverty-wage jobs just to keep a roof over their heads and feed their kids. People whose entire life was working and sleeping, for years and years with no end in sight. So much time and energy devoted to merely living that there was no chance of them ever getting an education or bettering themselves in any meaningful way.

These are the people Fox News Drones insist do not exist, under the insanity that it is impossible for a person to be a productive member of society if they receive any kind of 'entitlement' money. It is proof that this brand of conservatives cares nothing about the virtue of hard work as they so casually dismiss the desperately hard work done by the poorest people in this country. To this brand of particularly tasteless clown, the only proof of hard work is a fat bank balance. It is ironic that so many millions of poor people are stupid enough to buy into this and vote for the Mitt Romneys of the world whose only interest is keeping them right where they are.

"A Theist is doing a great job demonstrating that he has no firsthand experience being poor or around poor people,"...quite the opposite....it's you who is clueless and who has no firsthand experience at being poor or even being around poor people, let alone that you actually ever lived in the inner city or went to racially mixed public schools....Your whole post is a sham...you don't know what you're talking about you clueless naive kid.

[Tea Earl Grey Hot]

...
"A Theist is doing a great job demonstrating that he has no firsthand experience being poor or around poor people,"...quite the opposite....it's you who is clueless and who has no firsthand experience at being poor or even being around poor people, let alone that you actually ever lived in the inner city or went to racially mixed public schools....Your whole post is a sham...you don't know what you're talking about you clueless naive kid.

How the Hypocrite Rightwing Argues

[Ryantology]

Curses! It's the dreaded "NO U" retort! O bitter defeat!

[Annik]

He made a thread about a video that says the left is invalid because they call people names and then, instead of arguing, he calls people names. I don't even.

[Tea Earl Grey Hot]

This was like watching a guy with an "I'm with stupid -->" t-shirt stand next to a mirror.