What should I say?

[Cyberman]

Welcome aboard! You've found one of the brightest and liveliest - if not actually the sanest - spots on the web.

From what I've seen so far, you come across as more than able to defend your corner. I'll just reiterate what others before me have said; this place will very quickly give you the ammunition to finish the job. My old mate Min, for instance, I regard as the go-to guy on matters of history and archaeology. For my part, I usually find it valuable to let my opponent dig their own hole (with perhaps just a little guidance from yours truly).

[frankiej]

Howdy, man.

Hanging about this forum will definitely give you what you want, but it will also make you even sicker of the crazy crap that religious folk come out with.

[KichigaiNeko]

Best get accustomed to some of this...

[pocaracas]

They'll usually reply with something about the bible.... -.-'
Poor deluded folks... [...] Books abound, how do you tell if they're fact or fiction, if it's not spelled out on the cover?
Why would the bible be more trustworthy than any other holy book? Torah, qu'ran, vedas, etc...?

Thanks so much for the reply Well, I actually said that on my last friendly debate. To be exact, I told her (the same classmate I mentioned on my first post), "Why should you believe the Bible when ordinary people wrote it? Humans make errors, you know that. And how can you tell that they are not lying that God and Jesus exists?" I shouldn't have debated with her if she didn't lecture me when I JUST asked her if she believes in God, but she became really touchy when I asked her.

So you started the conversation?... try not to... it's not worth it. But if they ask, reply politely.

Well, you know what she said? "They are not ordinary people! They're God's disciples! And they just wrote what God told them to!" I was silently like, "...WTF? Telekinesis?

Should have gone more on the "how do you know that?" Oh yeah.. it's in the same book they wrote!

I write a book and in it include the mention that everything in it is true.... Circular reasoning

I believe in God just like you are!" (*blech* I was a liar...) Well, what should I say when confronted that defense? I just can't believe she was too ignorant to belive that stuff.

Don't lie... it can bite you in the ass, someday.

Most people just believe because they're indoctrinated... they've never thought about it, "that's just how the world is".

Don't fight! If you get aggressive, they'll back off and you'll be seen as the bad guy.
Just keep cool and tell them how it is that you don't believe. How you came to that conclusion. If they can attack your train of thought, think harder
Most of the times, they can't... just as you can't really attack theirs (circular reasoning, remember? they can't get out).
So, if it looks like they've found a crack in your reasoning, they're most likely deflecting... moving the goalposts, or committing some other fallacy.
Do learn about Pascal's wager.... they like to use that one.

[Brian37]

Hi.
I'm an atheist, and I can't lie about it anymore. While I wouldn't go shout, "I don't believe in God," I most certainly will say my beliefs (or lack thereof) when asked. So, can anyone list me the most common Christian defenses and the most appropriate atheist reasoning for each defense? I almost got into a debate with my classmate today, but I got speechless when I can't tell her how blind she is when she said, "Just look around you. Isn't that enough proof?" I know--meaningless. Fortunately, I didn't loose her.
I do not like debates, and would prefer my belief to be left alone. However, I'd like to be prepared, as I would like to be able to at least defend my atheism, as they are able to defend their Christianism with such meaningless thoughts.
Thanks, everybody. You all rock

Welcome. But let me warn you ahead of time this is a long journey, not something we can simply wrap up in one thread. I went from Catholic, to deist, to atheist and that took a little over a decade.

But, we can start you off with some terms, books, and useful websites.

Terms you need to know.

1. Ocham's Razor
2. Fallacy of Pascal's wager
3. The problem with infinite regress
4. Circular Reasoning(self serving, quoting a book because it coincides with the believer's desires.

Books you need to read, this is a short list.

The God Delusion, Richard Dawkins
The New Atheism, Victor Stenger
God Is Not Great, Christopher Hitchens
The End Of Faith, Sam Harris
Infidel, Ayaan Hersi Ali

Websites I have found useful,

This one.
It's rival, just switch org with com.
Rational Responders
Skepticsannotatedbible.com
Positive Atheism, a website full of skeptical quotes(not all quoted were atheists however)
Freedom From Religion Foundation
American Atheists
Atheists United

But, my best advice is to always remember that their starting point, no matter what religion, polytheistic or monotheistic, they are starting with the naked assertion that an invisible magical sky friend exists, so any holy book or pseudo science wont change that starting point.

[Minimalist]

Welcome, Newbie.

So, can anyone list me the most common Christian defenses

"The bible says....." is their most favorite comfort zone. They think a silly old book of iron age fairy tales is still relevant in the 21st century.

Study this graphic and you will see the problem.




As an alternative, this video will put everything in perspective.





Enjoy your stay and remember that there are no stupid questions.... except ones that are answered with "goddidit."

[TarShoduze]

Best get accustomed to some of this...

Hehe, I'm just 17 years old ^_^

---

So you started the conversation?... try not to... it's not worth it. But if they ask, reply politely.

Well, yeah, I did. And really wasn't worth it I wasn't challenging her faith, I just wanted to know if she ever wondered about those things...

Don't lie... it can bite you in the ass, someday.

Yeah. I already decided to be honest IF one asks.

Do learn about Pascal's wager.... they like to use that one.

Thanks--I will.

---

Welcome. But let me warn you ahead of time this is a long journey, not something we can simply wrap up in one thread. I went from Catholic, to deist, to atheist and that took a little over a decade.

That was tough. But the first time I asked my mom, "Why do plants grow?" and the first time she answered, "Because God made them," was the first time I learned about God AND questioned his existence, at a young age of 5. I then realized that I was an Atheist at 5th level Dawkins scale--up 'til now.[/quote]

But, we can start you off with some terms, books, and useful websites.

Terms you need to know.

1. Ocham's Razor
2. Fallacy of Pascal's wager
3. The problem with infinite regress
4. Circular Reasoning(self serving, quoting a book because it coincides with the believer's desires.

Books you need to read, this is a short list.

The God Delusion, Richard Dawkins
The New Atheism, Victor Stenger
God Is Not Great, Christopher Hitchens
The End Of Faith, Sam Harris
Infidel, Ayaan Hersi Ali

Websites I have found useful,

This one.
It's rival, just switch org with com.
Rational Responders
Skepticsannotatedbible.com
Positive Atheism, a website full of skeptical quotes(not all quoted were atheists however)
Freedom From Religion Foundation
American Atheists
Atheists United

Thanks. That should give me a start. I like to read, so that shouldn't be a problem.[/quote]

But, my best advice is to always remember that their starting point, no matter what religion, polytheistic or monotheistic, they are starting with the naked assertion that an invisible magical sky friend exists, so any holy book or pseudo science wont change that starting point.

I understand.

---

Study this graphic and you will see the problem.
[...]
Enjoy your stay and remember that there are no stupid questions.... except ones that are answered with "goddidit."

Oh, I've been answered and welcomed by Min himself! What a pleasure I've seen "goddidit" several times here already while browsing the forums. So cliché it can be made into 1 word, huh?

---

I was actually just 5 on the scale. I saw no reason to believe. But I became 6 after seeing all these proof...

[Cyberman]

To extend Brian's list slightly, I would also recommend these websites:

the excellent and comprehensive jesusneverexisted.com;
atheist-experience.com (plus there's tons of their videos on YouTube);
ironchariots.org, the Atheist Experience's own wiki;
rationalwiki.org;

and if you're in need of a laugh, or just want to despair for humanity:

Fundies Say The Darndest Things (fstdt.net)

[Cato]

Tar,

The following site is a fairly straightforward demonstration of typical christian apologetics. Depending on your mood, it is good for light hearted humor:

http://carm.org/

For batshit crazy christian points of view, visit FSTDT:
http://www.fstdt.com/

As was said before, stop here regularly to sort it out.

[KichigaiNeko]

Best get accustomed to some of this...

Hehe, I'm just 17 years old ^_^

That could be an issue.