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RE: The Noachian Flood
December 18, 2012 at 5:21 pm
(This post was last modified: December 18, 2012 at 5:22 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
That -would- rescue it from being a narrative of genocide. Unfortunately it will have eradicated the stated purpose of the flood, and the ark (and what a pathetic rain god we're looking at eh).
Say earth was -everything within 5 miles, mountain meant hill over 2 feet, and a cubit was some measure of inches.
"Coming up at 10, A local man clings to his chicken coop while the river overruns it's banks -in other news, the world still filled with evil"
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: The Noachian Flood
December 18, 2012 at 5:25 pm
Indeed, it always tickles me that defenders of the faith seem to enjoy twisting themselves into knots of Gordian proportion on the Flood's global nature, totally forgetting that in comparison to the genocide aspect, it's hair-splittingly irrelevant.
At the age of five, Skagra decided emphatically that God did not exist. This revelation tends to make most people in the universe who have it react in one of two ways - with relief or with despair. Only Skagra responded to it by thinking, 'Wait a second. That means there's a situation vacant.'
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RE: The Noachian Flood
December 18, 2012 at 9:04 pm
(December 18, 2012 at 5:25 pm)Stimbo Wrote: Indeed, it always tickles me that defenders of the faith seem to enjoy twisting themselves into knots of Gordian proportion on the Flood's global nature, totally forgetting that in comparison to the genocide aspect, it's hair-splittingly irrelevant.
Actually, I have no "belief" either way. I can honestly say that I can see it as being possible though.
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RE: The Noachian Flood
December 19, 2012 at 11:10 am
(This post was last modified: December 19, 2012 at 11:12 am by The Grand Nudger.)
No event of the magnitude described, local or global, is even remotely possible. No boat of the dimensions (to be blunt, even a tiny boat) and construction described is even remotely capable of riding out such an event. The other parts of the narrative are equally absurd, in every particular, from the bit about the animals to the stated reason for the flood. The narrative (like all of Genesis) is irreconcilable with reality.
Why don't you just cherry pick the entire book out of consideration (and if you don't feel the need to do so...why cherry pick anywhere else - if you're a-ok with the flood, everything else is small potatoes)?
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: The Noachian Flood
December 20, 2012 at 1:16 pm
(December 18, 2012 at 4:58 pm)Rhythm Wrote: (December 17, 2012 at 10:33 am)catfish Wrote: הָאָרֶץ , the orinal Hebrew word translated to "earth" had/s multiple meanings...
הָאָרֶץ = nf. country, land; earth, ground, geo-; territory : http://translation.babylon.com/hebrew/to-english/
Doesn't matter in the least. The amount of water required to accomplish the narrative destroying and wholly less miraculous flood you're proposing (and maintain it for an apocalyptic 40 days and nights - let's be honest, you haven't given this any thought at all.....) what with water seeking it's own level....well, may as well just abandon the local flood nonsense because you're already invoking enough magic to make the real world (and it's limitations) irrelevant. Imagine a storm capable of dumping as much rain per minute as a category 5 hurricane does in an hour - dumping it for over a month straight. That's what we'd be talking about if it didn't happen in fantasy-land. Meanwhile, Noah and his raft..just riding it out..lol- and the water? Well hell, it just "stayed" in the region.
Ridiculous, you clearly figured that god was filling a swimming pool sized hole in the earth or something. This narrative cannot be reconciled with reality, regardless of who wrote it Cat. Had anything like the flood described in the bible ever occurred anywhere on earth we would not be here to talk about it, no living thing would be left alive on this rock, the entire planet would be uninhabitable. It's a bit different than filling a tub -of any size-.
So, you make a conclusion for me? I "figured" nothing, I gave an alternative interpretation.
I recognise the possibility of the flood being global, nothing else. I believe in continental drift and I do not believe our mountain ranges have always been mountains... I also read the Genesis story and I believe in underground springs...
Out of curiosity, do you believe marine fossils were found in mountain-top ranges?
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RE: The Noachian Flood
December 20, 2012 at 1:44 pm
(December 20, 2012 at 1:16 pm)catfish Wrote: So, you make a conclusion for me? I "figured" nothing, I gave an alternative interpretation.
I recognise the possibility of the flood being global, nothing else. I believe in continental drift and I do not believe our mountain ranges have always been mountains... I also read the Genesis story and I believe in underground springs...
Out of curiosity, do you believe marine fossils were found in mountain-top ranges?
.
Do you have any idea how long it takes continental drift to push up a mountain? 6000 years ago the mountains of the world would all pertty much be the same height they are now
Oh and continental drift is why marine fossils are found on mountain tops, its because they were once sea bed that was pushed up.
You can fix ignorance, you can't fix stupid.
Tinkety Tonk and down with the Nazis.
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RE: The Noachian Flood
December 20, 2012 at 1:48 pm
(December 20, 2012 at 1:44 pm)downbeatplumb Wrote: (December 20, 2012 at 1:16 pm)catfish Wrote: So, you make a conclusion for me? I "figured" nothing, I gave an alternative interpretation.
I recognise the possibility of the flood being global, nothing else. I believe in continental drift and I do not believe our mountain ranges have always been mountains... I also read the Genesis story and I believe in underground springs...
Out of curiosity, do you believe marine fossils were found in mountain-top ranges?
.
Do you have any idea how long it takes continental drift to push up a mountain? 6000 years ago the mountains of the world would all pertty much be the same height they are now
Oh and continental drift is why marine fossils are found on mountain tops, its because they were once sea bed that was pushed up.
So you're supporting a young Earth creationist's view? Where do you get 6000 from?
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RE: The Noachian Flood
December 20, 2012 at 2:10 pm
(This post was last modified: December 20, 2012 at 2:13 pm by Cyberman.)
(December 20, 2012 at 1:44 pm)downbeatplumb Wrote: Oh and continental drift is why marine fossils are found on mountain tops, its because they were once sea bed that was pushed up.
On this point, I've often thought that the Global Flood scenario, as with so much of this stuff, makes for an interesting and revealing glimpse into the minds of ancient civilisations as they sought to explain the world around them. Sea animals at the top of mountains? Maybe at one time the mountains were under the sea, which would mean there was a lot of sea - enough to drown the whole world perhaps...
As our knowledge increases we discover new ways of explaining these things, such as plate tectonics and related geological process like uplift and erosion that are more than capable of building mountain ranges all by themselves. We no longer need to resort to increasingly, embarrassingly, irrelevant mythology.
This has been a "No Shit, Sherlock" production.
In other news, post 4321. Just wanted that on record.
At the age of five, Skagra decided emphatically that God did not exist. This revelation tends to make most people in the universe who have it react in one of two ways - with relief or with despair. Only Skagra responded to it by thinking, 'Wait a second. That means there's a situation vacant.'
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RE: The Noachian Flood
December 20, 2012 at 2:31 pm
(December 20, 2012 at 1:48 pm)catfish Wrote: (December 20, 2012 at 1:44 pm)downbeatplumb Wrote: Do you have any idea how long it takes continental drift to push up a mountain? 6000 years ago the mountains of the world would all pertty much be the same height they are now
Oh and continental drift is why marine fossils are found on mountain tops, its because they were once sea bed that was pushed up.
So you're supporting a young Earth creationist's view? Where do you get 6000 from?
.
Ok how long ago was the flood myth set?
it was supposedly during early civilisation so roughly 6000 years would be about right wouldn't you say.
You can fix ignorance, you can't fix stupid.
Tinkety Tonk and down with the Nazis.
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RE: The Noachian Flood
December 21, 2012 at 9:44 am
(This post was last modified: December 21, 2012 at 9:56 am by The Grand Nudger.)
(December 20, 2012 at 1:16 pm)catfish Wrote: So, you make a conclusion for me? I "figured" nothing, I gave an alternative interpretation.
I recognise the possibility of the flood being global, nothing else. An alternative explanation that is equally as ludicrous as the dry reading you're hoping to reconcile (for the exact same reasons- no less). It never happened at all Cat, not global or local, and it is not possible. It's possible that the narrative could mean either- but the narrative and reality are irreconcilable- so it doesn't matter which reading you prefer. You're "figuring" a great many ignorant things in "recognizing this possibility" - so no Cat, I'm not making conclusions for you, I'm reminding you that the conclusion you've come to (and all of it's unspoken miracles) is garbage.
Quote:I believe in continental drift and I do not believe our mountain ranges have always been mountains... I also read the Genesis story and I believe in underground springs...
All things which do not require belief. All things which do not require a reading of genesis. All things which are not explained by or elaborated upon by genesis. All things which offer no support for genesis.
Quote:Out of curiosity, do you believe marine fossils were found in mountain-top ranges?
Yet another thing that requires no belief. I live in an area that used to be a warm, shallow sea all the way up until the cenozoic. It's now part of the Appalachians. There are marine fossils in my fencewall.
Since you're deadset on keeping this narrative, I'll ask again, why cherry pick your way through the others? How is the decision to keep or toss narratives made? Throwing darts? Consult the Ouija board? Magic 8-ball?
@the timeline of the flood myth - it happened in dreamtime, obviously. A big roo jumped up and cracked open the sky or some-such.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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