Nothingness

[fr0d0]

Unless, of course, that isn't how time works.

OK I'll bite... how else could it work?

*dons foil hat*

:p

[Violet]

OK I'll bite... how else could it work?

*dons foil hat*

:p

What say... if time is a current process, and 'going back in time' is only part of the ongoing passage of time. That is to say, you happened, and your ability to time travel happened, and new things will come of what you do in this time.

That is to say: time is only a linear function in the loose sense of causation. Output for a state 50 years ago is not the same as output for a different state 50 years ago.

WHAT THIS MEANS: even though you CAN prevent you from ever being born in this new timeline: YOU still live on in this time. Theoretically, you could go back in time 15 seconds and kill "yourself" (the other 'you'), and you wouldn't be impacted in the slightest.

Oh, look at that... I just solved one of the greatest paradoxes that ever was. Someone stop me before I do something else.

[smax]

I am a Muslim and student of philosophy and comparative religions. I am doing a research work and part of my activities is to surf on different religious sites in order to read people’s religious and non-religious opinions about God. I had been surfing on different religious sites like “Reasonable Faith, Christian site run by Dr. William Craig”, “IRF, Muslim site run by Dr. Zakir Naik”, and some other religious sites including Hinduism, Buddhism, Zoroastrianism, Judaism, Jainism, etc.

It is something shameful what I find on the “atheist” site that I have not met on any religious site. It is the use of extreme vulgar language and disrespect to each other. We can argue on each other’s point of view but argument doesn’t mean use of language that is reprehensible and inhumane.

What I found after reading many threads on this site as if the real joy and pleasure of an atheist is to tease and degrade a person, who has faith in God, down to the level of low life, which is an act of extreme immorality. As if atheist is a little boy, who has pushed his fingers into his ears and starts shouting loudly for the purpose to humiliate the speaker and this act of his becomes the source of his pleasure. In atheism, I feel there is zero tolerance among its followers. To devaluate a person and run away mischievously is very easy compared to stand firm and answer with reasons by being within the limits of respect and grace. We are here to learn from each other not to kill each other. Anyway, knowing all possible harsh consequences in response to my critique on atheism, I still dare to post a question here in hope to enter in a healthy discussion instead of receiving shocking words.

I think a level of mutual respect can be accomplished. However, the majority of religious people expect their religion to be promoted by and practiced in government, and that creates quite a chasm to cross between Theist and Atheist.

Many religious people claim to be satisfied with the separation of church and state, but meanwhile they are pissed off and complaining about the removal of the Bible and prayer in schools, and the ten commandments in court rooms.

The point is, religious people, in general, want to force everyone else to adhere to their beliefs and practices in some way or another. As an example, I would point to a Christian group that got very upset with Wal-Mart for instructing it's employees to say "Happy Holidays" instead of "Merry Christmas" and preposed a boycott.

As long as Theists want to take liberties away from Atheists, and each other, there's going to be bitterness and a lack of harmony. Personally, I have religious friends, and they all believe, without contradiction, in:

"Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness"

Anyone who doesn't is no friend of mine.

Question:
Atheist believes Universe pops out of nothing.

Is there any atheist in the world who can explain what exactly is “NOTHINGNESS or NIHILISM?”

Cheers

I don't accept your premise that Atheists (in general) believe that the Universe "pops out of nothing". Most of the Atheists I know take a very humble position on this matter and admit that they simply have no conclusive explanation for the ultimate cause of the universe. Some may like or prefer the Big Bang Theory, which I believe you are attempting to reference here, but almost all Atheists accept the fact that there is no conclusive information up to this point, and that there most likely never will be.

Most Theists, on the other hand, claim to already have the answer: GOD. They claim god has ALWAYS existed and he created the universe simply by speaking it into existence.

If I were you, and I was at one time (the Christian version, anyway), I'd start trying to get some decent answers about my own beliefs, and leave the non-committal Atheists alone.

Just a thought.

---

Look Mister, you don't have to prove you are an athiest by the use of reprehensible language. Anyway, thanks for showing once again what is atheism.

Define the difference between:

Shit and poop.

Fuck and hump.

Ass and butt.

All words that mean exactly the same thing, only someone (or some people or group) decided that only certain synonyms are appropriate to use.

The funny thing is, it's almost always religious people who are offended by "inappropriate" language. Why? I suspect it has something to do with their brain washed sense of extreme order:

"I must act this way, so you must act this way too. Do it or suffer the consequences!"

"I can't believe that guy doesn't act like me. Make him act like me!"

If religious people could just shake their misguided expectations of others, we might just all get along in this world.

One can only dream.

---

Is there any atheist in the world who can explain what exactly is “NOTHINGNESS or NIHILISM?”

Is there any learned atheist here with whom I can have Literary discussion or this site is ruled by bunch of naughty teenagers only?

First, you are combing the earth in search of someone with an answer, now we are all juvenile idiots because we cannot provide you with the secret of the universe?

[Sal]

A confusion between term and semantics if I ever saw one.

Designating a zero amount isn't quite the same as the empty set Ø.

Zero amount... isn't the same... as an empty set zero...?



Where did you come up with that one? XD That's great, man.

... Wait... you're not actually serious, are you? 0.o

I find your lack of understanding of mathematical set theory disturbing.

j/k.

But really. In set theory, Ø, is quite literally lack of a number, and it is defined as {} by designation.

[Violet]

I find your lack of understanding of mathematical set theory disturbing.

j/k.

But really. In set theory, Ø, is quite literally lack of a number, and it is defined as {} by designation.

Somehow, you haven't explained how zero isn't nothing, though... are you considering it a difference of 'zero ____ is not a complete absence of things, only the absence of ____ thing(s), whereas nothingness is the void of any non-nothing things'?

When I was thirteen, I used that Ø symbol in a lot of character names

[Angrboda]

I mean unless you have a basic understanding of anti matter annihilation or are a very logical and level headed individual which im assuming you are your going to be thinking how the fuck can you create something out of nothing.

What's anti-matter annihilating itself against matter got to do with anything?

Logical? Of course I'm not logical. Never had enough faith in logic to take the plunge. Been free of logic for forty years... I don't intend to enslave myself within it now.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5k3JVfxluFU

[The Reality Salesman01]

I've been on plenty of Christian sites, you're right, they don't say harsh words towards each other. Most of the posts are bible scriptures and people just agreeing with each other. In fact they discourage debate, topics and even questions that may lead to any fundamental monotheistic principles being intellectually challenged whatsoever. Different ideas or perspectives are not welcomed even in the most respectful or cordial form. In fact, they're blocked and deleted by mods, but while you wait, the members will bombard you with condemnations to hell and eternal torture. If you don't believe in God or if you believe in more than one, you're ignored and silenced. So,you being Muslim explains why you found it more pleasurable. You believe in one God, and they rationalize that by convincing themselves that what you call Allah is actually their God, and they believe you to be slightly misguided, but at least you're on the right track. The kind ones judge you within there circles, we like to throw the challenge right a cross the plate.

Here, lucidity is all that matters. We're all adults and if you (not you specifically, but generally speaking) wanna come in here waiving any banner of special knowledge, you better be ready to explain yourself, and you're backed into a corner without a logical thought to defend yourself with, the respectful and lucid thing to do among atheist, or anybody that is champion of logic, is to either keep your belief to yourself or recognize when logic no longer supports your claim and concede that fact. Any judgmental threats based on a superstition yet to be justified by reason or plausibility, will be dealt with in the manner you describe as unique to Atheists. That being said, with regards to the OP, I don't know you, but I will respect you and give you every benefit of the doubt as being a fantastic person that just happens to believe something that I don't (please keep in mind that its not the other way around too, please), and I would be happy to answer any questions you have.

It is absolutely absurd to claim that the universe came from nothing. Why?

Define nothing? 0 and infinity are equally impossible to correlate with reality. They are words used to illustrate concepts. Anyone claiming to have knowledge of true nothingness or infinity, is simply mistaken. It's much more accurate to say: I don't know.

Its a creative liberty to take words and assign meaning to them based on possible applicability within a subject. Atheist- Not a theist. That's all.

[Violet]

It is absolutely absurd to claim that the universe came from nothing. Why?

Yes, 'Why?' is the question I would have asked.

Define nothing? 0 and infinity are equally impossible to correlate with reality. They are words used to illustrate concepts. Anyone claiming to have knowledge of true nothingness or infinity, is simply mistaken. It's much more accurate to say: I don't know.

Concepts aren't a part of reality?

Its a creative liberty to take words and assign meaning to them based on possible applicability within a subject. Atheist- Not a theist. That's all.

And yet, all words are is assigned meaning... what does the basis matter?

[Sal]

I find your lack of understanding of mathematical set theory disturbing.

j/k.

But really. In set theory, Ø, is quite literally lack of a number, and it is defined as {} by designation.

Somehow, you haven't explained how zero isn't nothing, though... are you considering it a difference of 'zero ____ is not a complete absence of things, only the absence of ____ thing(s), whereas nothingness is the void of any non-nothing things'?

When I was thirteen, I used that Ø symbol in a lot of character names

Quite right.

In my first post I made the distinction between zero into amount and Ø.

You can have for instance an amount of apples, say, 3 apples and give 3 apples away, you're still left with an amount, namely zero apples. This is a trivial but an important departure from The Empty Set. Where you can't say to have Ø of anything, i.e. you can't have Ø amount of something, or anything for that matter - because as soon as you say you have an amount of something, being it zero or even negative amount ("debt") then you have defined it and it becomes a part of existence.

The first part of your sentence that you use in your reply:

zero ____ is not a complete absence of things, only the absence of ____ thing(s), [...]

Is about amount, while:

whereas nothingness is the void of any non-nothing things'

is The Empty set, Ø.

The Empty Set is also used in logic, it's not just confined to mathematics.

AFAIK, The Empty Set is different from Division By Zero - which in standard math defies logical definition and to this day remains undefined. However, both Division By Zero and The Empty Set are two kinds of types of things that sorta designate lack of explanation and lack of something. Might be we get some brilliant logician and/or mathematician that can sufficiently explain DBZ without paradoxes.

[Violet]

Well, you'll have no argument from me on that point

Nobody can explain Dragon Ball Z without paradoxes. It isn't possible TT__TT