Proving God Existence

[Muslim Scholar]

Your argument is basically "How did we get something from nothing?" Your answer is that we got something from another something called God. So then the question is "How did we get another something that created this something from nothing?" Which is to say that you haven't really answered the first question.

Wrong, you just played with words (with dishonest) to assign the word something to two different things 1-the Universe 2-God
But I proved that the Universe had a creator (based on the universe characteristics)
on the other hand no body can prove that God was created (because we don't know his nature/attributes)

Do you see how it is greatly different?

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you are still desperatly trying to sell your worthless snakeoil.

I see that you cannot refute my proof, so you cannot just ignore the thread

Do you still aprove of slavery and equate not being a Muslim to being a criminal offence?

Absolutely, slavery is just a punishment
Muslim can choose to KILL or enslave war prisoner (and their families as well)

It is very consistent with the concept of hell and paradise
You (as a non-Muslim) are supposed to fear hell and also to fear Muslim actions against you (God even used the word Terror in Quran)

If you like we can create a thread about that (Islam promotes terrorism)
and I would agree with the title (with some details and restriction)
Then I'll show you that on any case it is bad for and good for Muslims.

[The Grand Nudger]

Wrong, you just played with words (with dishonest) to assign the word something to two different things 1-the Universe 2-God

I agree, "something" applies to the universe - it does not apply to a god, the more appropriate term for that would be "nothing".

Absolutely, slavery is just a punishment
Muslim can choose to KILL or enslave war prisoner (and their families as well)

To you, perhaps, but not to me.

It is very consistent with the concept of hell and paradise
You (as a non-Muslim) are supposed to fear hell and also to fear Muslim actions against you (God even used the word Terror in Quran)

Yet I manage to fear neither hell nor muslims. So who fucked this one up, muslims or god?

[paulpablo]

Why does what G1 does have to effect G2? If G2 or G1 exists.

[Zarith]

The definition of S1 is to me ambiguous. Either you are saying that:
1) S1 contains all states which are separated in time from 1/1/2000 00:00:00 by an amount that is smaller than some arbitrarily chosen fixed constant number T1, or ...
2) S1 contains all states which are separated in time from 1/1/2000 00:00:00 by some finite number, this number being different for different members of S1

If you mean definition (1), then S1 contains a finite number of elements and S2 contains an infinite number of elements.
If you mean definition (2), then S1 contains an infinite number of elements and S2 is empty.

To see why (2) entails an infinite S1, note that given any member of S1 at time T0, a new member of S1 can be generated at T1=T0+1. T0 is finite therefore T1 is too.

This should have been obvious, since you can't start with a set containing an infinite number of elements (the integers), split it, and end up with a finite number of elements in the union of the 2 resulting sets.

The point is that we assumed that infinite number of elements can exist, so we can define (hypothetically) a set with infinite number of elements

If we start by an infinite number of events, then splitting it can either result in 2 infinite sets or one finite and the other is infinite.

then prove that an infinite number of elements is impossible.

It seems there is some confusion on your part about what I said.

Your argument is that splitting a set S (which contains an infinite number of elements) into 2 sets S0 and S1 results in S0 having a finite number of elements and S1 having a finite number of elements. Stay in school?

[Something completely different]

I see that you cannot refute my proof, so you cannot just ignore the thread

Your "proof" was shown to be invalid and untrue within the first 3 pages of this thread, you simply ignore this and keep beating a dead horse.

[Muslim Scholar]

I see that you cannot refute my proof, so you cannot just ignore the thread

Your "proof" was shown to be invalid and untrue within the first 3 pages of this thread, you simply ignore this and keep beating a dead horse.

I can see clearly that you deep inside accept it, you just cannot swallow it, so you cannot take it out of your mind
Just keep saying that as a Parrot, maybe you will believe yourself.

You are no different than Christians, you based your RELIGION on desires and no-evidences.

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It seems there is some confusion on your part about what I said.

Your argument is that splitting a set S (which contains an infinite number of elements) into 2 sets S0 and S1 results in S0 having a finite number of elements and S1 having a finite number of elements.

It is not an argument, it is a proof by perfect induction, i.e. laying out all possibilities (regardless if it is logical or not) then rejecting the illogical ones.

The remaining option is proved by contradiction.

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Why does what G1 does have to effect G2? If G2 or G1 exists.

It doesn't!

We just assumed that time is the relation between 2 events
then proved that time had a start, i.e. the relation between 2 events didn't exist before or at the Big Bang
The first event or the Big Bang itself must be just one event

if it is one event and G2 exists
then time existed as a relation can be set between G2 and G1's actions.
which contradicts with the conclusion

I hope I made it clear.

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Yet I manage to fear neither hell nor muslims.

Not being afraid is like a drunk man walk into a moving bus!

It will not save you from hell.

I think that your problem is not proving God, the problem is that you cannot accept being a slave to God, you want to be free that is why you don't accept Islam

Islam is restricting freedom not like any other religions that just give you a relief and false promises of being saved for doing nothing.

Prophet Mohamed said: Life is the paradise of non-believers and the prison of believers.

[bennyboy]

Your "proof" was shown to be invalid and untrue within the first 3 pages of this thread, you simply ignore this and keep beating a dead horse.

I can see clearly that you deep inside accept it, you just cannot swallow it, so you cannot take it out of your mind
Just keep saying that as a Parrot, maybe you will believe yourself.

You are no different than Christians, you based your RELIGION on desires and no-evidences.

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It seems there is some confusion on your part about what I said.

Your argument is that splitting a set S (which contains an infinite number of elements) into 2 sets S0 and S1 results in S0 having a finite number of elements and S1 having a finite number of elements.

It is not an argument, it is a proof by perfect induction, i.e. laying out all possibilities (regardless if it is logical or not) then rejecting the illogical ones.

The remaining option is proved by contradiction.

---

Why does what G1 does have to effect G2? If G2 or G1 exists.

It doesn't!

We just assumed that time is the relation between 2 events
then proved that time had a start, i.e. the relation between 2 events didn't exist before or at the Big Bang
The first event or the Big Bang itself must be just one event

if it is one event and G2 exists
then time existed as a relation can be set between G2 and G1's actions.
which contradicts with the conclusion

I hope I made it clear.

---

Yet I manage to fear neither hell nor muslims.

Not being afraid is like a drunk man walk into a moving bus!

It will not save you from hell.

I think that your problem is not proving God, the problem is that you cannot accept being a slave to God, you want to be free that is why you don't accept Islam

Islam is restricting freedom not like any other religions that just give you a relief and false promises of being saved for doing nothing.

Prophet Mohamed said: Life is the paradise of non-believers and the prison of believers.

It seems to me you've given up on logic and moved on to the proselytization phase of this thread. Maybe it should be moved to the religion section?

[pocaracas]

We just assumed that time is the relation between 2 events
then proved that time had a start, i.e. the relation between 2 events didn't exist before or at the Big Bang

You never proved that... you simply asserted it.
Just because we, who are inside this particular Universe, cannot measure anything out of it (and that includes out of its temporal scope), it does not mean that there is no "before the big bang".

Prophet Mohamed said: Life is the paradise of non-believers and the prison of believers.

Well, then... Leave life to us non-believers and kill yourselves. This paradise will be much more paradisiacal without the likes of you.
And you will be much much happier in the after-life than you could ever be in this shitty life.
Remember the important part: kill YOURselves... each of your race, kills himself and ONLY himself, not anyone else.... I want no room for error.
Go spread this wonderful gospel of poca!

[paulpablo]

It doesn't!

We just assumed that time is the relation between 2 events
then proved that time had a start, i.e. the relation between 2 events didn't exist before or at the Big Bang
The first event or the Big Bang itself must be just one event

if it is one event and G2 exists
then time existed as a relation can be set between G2 and G1's actions.
which contradicts with the conclusion

I hope I made it clear.

It isn't really clear because

You have even said in this sentence that time can be set in relation between G1 and G2, It's impossible for you to definitely know that it will. There could still be a G2 existing now outside of G1s time and space and our time and space completely not related to anything.

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Also I'm confused as to this part in what you originally typed.

4. G is outside time, G must be one unit as if there are more than one entity time can be related to each other, but as time did not exist, then G is one UN-separated self-dependent unit
(The Eternal, The one, The self sufficient)

Are you saying god was outside of time, then became part of time when he created the world in 6 days or periods, then he went back to not being a part of time up until the point when he had to impregnate virgins and tell noah to build a boat, but after that he went back to not being a part of time again?

[Something completely different]

I can see clearly that you deep inside accept it, you just cannot swallow it, so you cannot take it out of your mind
Just keep saying that as a Parrot, maybe you will believe yourself.

You are no different than Christians, you based your RELIGION on desires and no-evidences.