The Quran

[Something completely different]

I remember reading this book when I was 17 or so, I took notes and stuff and after reading it was capable of debating it and questioning alot of it.
Recently I noticed how I started to become a bit rusty.

Other than that certain users here motivated me to read it again in order to rip it into pieces again.
Which is what I will do now, for everyone to see.

my source:

http://quran.com/1

translation: Sahih international.

Chapter one;

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In the name of Allah , the Entirely Merciful, the Especially Merciful.

Allah worshiped like a medieval king, or was it seen as the other way arround then?

1:2

[All] praise is [due] to Allah , Lord of the worlds -

all praise? always with these extremes within religions. And why worlds? why plural?

1:3

The Entirely Merciful, the Especially Merciful,

again like a monarch

1:4


Sovereign of the Day of Recompense.

so he will be a monarch starting with the apokalypse

1:5

It is You we worship and You we ask for help.

I dont worship him, this book already assumes that I agree with it. Pathetic medieval arrogance.

1:6

Guide us to the straight path -

1:7

The path of those upon whom You have bestowed favor, not of those who have evoked [Your] anger or of those who are astray.

the religion of peace is quick to mention that it has enemies.

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chapter 2;

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2:1

Alif, Lam, Meem.

Whatever the fuck that means!

2:2

This is the Book about which there is no doubt, a guidance for those conscious of Allah -

So the book starts chpter two right away with cementing that there cannot be any doubt about what it has to say.
Reminded of the scene in Star Wars Episode 3 in which Kenobi says "only a Sith deals in Absolutes". Anyway, I think one can emideatly judge a movement, book or whatever when in interduces itself with a extreme "eighter you are with us or against us" statement. Especialy if the principles which should be doubted are not even listed. If they were at the end one could at least decide on the basis of knowing what to decide over - here one cannot.

One word: Totalitarian.

2:3

Who believe in the unseen, establish prayer, and spend out of what We have provided for them,

And it mentions that what is to believed in cannot be seen, but that you have to waste time on it anyway. "We" plural - so not just revealed by Allah alone to Muhammad, but also by his Ooompa Loompas.

2:4

And who believe in what has been revealed to you, [O Muhammad], and what was revealed before you, and of the Hereafter they are certain [in faith].

Does this already assert that it is the only true faith?!

2:5

Those are upon [right] guidance from their Lord, and it is those who are the successful.

And the others are not? Lol, I can see how this can be used to justify failure, poverty and hardship as the will of good, especialy of non muslims - after all - they deserve to be unsuccessfull.

2:6

Indeed, those who disbelieve - it is all the same for them whether you warn them or do not warn them - they will not believe.

lol, is this a "I dont give a fuck" statement?

2:7

Allah has set a seal upon their hearts and upon their hearing, and over their vision is a veil. And for them is a great punishment.

So is Allah, who isnt supposed to mess arround with free will, messing arround with the free will of the unbelievers here? And if not, he is a sadist cunt who prevents people from getting into safety.
I guess that phrase was just a halfassed pathetic phrase muhammed came up with, when no one wanted to join his sect in the beginnings of islam.

2:8

And of the people are some who say, "We believe in Allah and the Last Day," but they are not believers.

So the book already warns of those who are not "true believers". Which can justify muslims to turn on each other.

2:9

They [think to] deceive Allah and those who believe, but they deceive not except themselves and perceive [it] not.

So allah warns of "untrue" muslims. Which can justify muslims to do many things from being spying on each other to see how devout everyone else is - to forming a Shariah Stasi.

2:10

In their hearts is disease, so Allah has increased their disease; and for them is a painful punishment because they [habitually] used to lie.

So they are damnd as sick (in medieval societies - illness was mostly seen as a curse and the ill therefor avoided) And Allah inflicts this disease on them - or is fucking arround with free will again. Then the "untrue believers" are also marked to be liers.

2:11

And when it is said to them, "Do not cause corruption on the earth," they say, "We are but reformers."

WOW! Hahaha! A direct call against reform. I can see how this can be used to justify action against modernisation.

2:12

Unquestionably, it is they who are the corrupters, but they perceive [it] not.

So Allah hates liberals.

2:13

And when it is said to them, "Believe as the people have believed," they say, "Should we believe as the foolish have believed?" Unquestionably, it is they who are the foolish, but they know [it] not.

So it is claimed that they will look down at those of the past.

2:14

And when they meet those who believe, they say, "We believe"; but when they are alone with their evil ones, they say, "Indeed, we are with you; we were only mockers."

This is really mean actualy, how first pages are used to incite hatred and mistrust in order to keep the followers in check by assuring that they will constantly check on each others piousness in order to avoid being called a reformer.

2:15

[But] Allah mocks them and prolongs them in their transgression [while] they wander blindly.

So Allah is nothing more but a imature schoolyard Bully

2:16

Those are the ones who have purchased error [in exchange] for guidance, so their transaction has brought no profit, nor were they guided.

this "mocking" of the untrie believers is getting boring.

2:17

Their example is that of one who kindled a fire, but when it illuminated what was around him, Allah took away their light and left them in darkness [so] they could not see.

This is eighter methaphor for the unbelievers turning up once muhammed is gone, or it shows what a mean cunt of a bully allah is.

2:18

Deaf, dumb and blind - so they will not return [to the right path].

Damned from the start - how nice.

2:19

Or [it is] like a rainstorm from the sky within which is darkness, thunder and lightning. They put their fingers in their ears against the thunderclaps in dread of death. But Allah is encompassing of the disbelievers.

So Allah brings death to the disbelievers already?! And we are still in chapter 2.

2:20

The lightning almost snatches away their sight. Every time it lights [the way] for them, they walk therein; but when darkness comes over them, they stand [still]. And if Allah had willed, He could have taken away their hearing and their sight. Indeed, Allah is over all things competent.

So Allah the bully tests them?! Like a sadist kid who wants to see how long a insect can run arround without it`s head?

2:21

O mankind, worship your Lord, who created you and those before you, that you may become righteous -

Yeah right, especialy now that I have mentioned what will happen to you if you dont.

2:22

[He] who made for you the earth a bed [spread out] and the sky a ceiling and sent down from the sky, rain and brought forth thereby fruits as provision for you. So do not attribute to Allah equals while you know [that there is nothing similar to Him].

Is the earth (spread out) flat?! and with the sky being a ceiling does it make the sky impenetrable? At least we can see that they know how water produces life (which they dont understand), yet everything mentioned can be seen as a sign of complete scientific illeteracy.

Other than that, Allah is a dictator who makes clear that he doesnt only want to be worshiped - but that there are no equals to him.

2:23

And if you are in doubt about what We have sent down upon Our Servant [Muhammad], then produce a surah the like thereof and call upon your witnesses other than Allah , if you should be truthful.

So the process of varification of the book is outlined and based entirely on the book and not on outside information - meaning the initial writer of the book could stuff in whatever he wanted.

2:24

But if you do not - and you will never be able to - then fear the Fire, whose fuel is men and stones, prepared for the disbelievers.

lol of course there is a threat of hell who ignore the previously mentioned advice on how to varify claims within the book.

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Anyway, I will continue tomorrow.

Now after reading some Quran - I will head for the next bar and get drunk.

[Minimalist]

Why not

http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/quran/

[Savannahw]

Please continue. I am doing the same thing and I am only a chapter ahead of you.

[Something completely different]

Please continue. I am doing the same thing and I am only a chapter ahead of you.

I have an exam this week, will continue during the weekend.

[Savannahw]

If its ok with you I'll post some of my own notes.

[Savannahw]

I took your silence as a yes.

Sura 1: The opening
In the name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful.
All praise is due to Allah, the Lord of the Worlds.
The Beneficent, the Merciful.
Master of the Day of Judgment.
Thee do we serve and Thee do we beseech for help.
Keep us on the right path.
The path of those upon whom Thou hast bestowed favors. Not (the path) of those upon whom Thy wrath is brought down, nor of those who go astray.

Basic info: Al-Fatiha(Arabic name) translates to the mother of the Qur'an. It is a prayer that the most devout say up to 17xs a day. It is ment to be said before starting a new task. At some point in time it fell out of use and had to be reconstructed. Opinions as to where Allah sent this Sura to Mohammad seems to disagree. (whether it is Meccan or Median) Most seem to think it was sent twice, once at Mecca and at Medina. Most of it is pretty straight forward, except verse 7.
Verse 7
"The path of those upon whom Thou hast bestowed favors." - Muslims
"Not (the path) of those upon whom Thy wrath is brought down"- Consensuses says Jews, but not all Jews. It is believed to be the Jews (3 tribes) that took up arms against Mohammad at Median. Mohammad was friendly with other lesser tribes in Median. He took Jewish history lessons from them.
"Nor of those who go astray." Christians went astray because they were believed to lost the message of Jesus. Mohammad did not believe Jesus to be the son of god hence they lost their way.

[ideologue08]

Basic info: Al-Fatiha(Arabic name) translates to the mother of the Qur'an.

That's not what it translates as.

It is ment to be said before starting a new task.

That's not true. Have you got a citation for that?

At some point in time it fell out of use and had to be reconstructed.

Again, no idea where you got this incorrect information from.

It is believed to be the Jews (3 tribes) that took up arms against Mohammad at Median.

Yes, there were 3 Jewish tribes, but where's your citation that the verse is in reference to them? That's an opinion I've never heard of, you have to cite where you're getting this stuff from if you want to be taken seriously.

He took Jewish history lessons from them.

Again, what's the source for this incorrect statement?

Other than that it seems to be ok.

[Savannahw]

Ok look I understand that your Islamic and that tends to make people defensive. If you disagree with me that is fine. As for taking me seriously I don't expect you to. From what I have seen you post, you like to be argumentative. So Argue away. Poke holes. You aren't worth the calories I would burn to type it all out.

[ideologue08]

Why don't you get an Arabic-English dictionary instead of posting bullshit? Use your calorie intake to get something right for once in your sorry existence. Stop blaming other people for your own incompetence.

[Savannahw]

Your so funny