Oh, and I'm not going to answer any of your questions. You shouldn't either, at least for a couple weeks until you've learned to shut up inside. You'll see that the questions really don't mean anything from this vantage point. Okay, run along but remember .. shhh.
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Current time: December 14, 2024, 3:37 am
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Morality
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 (June 12, 2013 at 11:21 pm)crud Wrote: Now is anyone going to give me any form of real answer.. The supposed problem you have with atheism regarding morals is a false dichotomy. You invoke nihilism as the only alternative to a god given 'objective' morality. Why do you ignore the rest of the vast centuries long conversation regarding ethics?  RE: Morality
June 12, 2013 at 11:40 pm
(This post was last modified: June 12, 2013 at 11:42 pm by Rahul.)
(June 12, 2013 at 11:01 pm)crud Wrote: @wwjs You've obviously never had kids. Very few people "use" their kids. Parents are used by their kids. They're a drain on your finances, your sex life, your freedom, etc. At first they are all cute but they can't do crap for themselves. And they throw up and poop all over the place. Then they grow up a little and they're fun then. Then they get to be teenagers and they act like the most ungrateful, selfish little shits on the planet. Later on after they move out you're all friends again. Believe me, if love didn't evolve as a seriously behavior modifying emotion in humans, most kids wouldn't make it to 20 years of age. Their parents would have killed them already. 
OK Crud,
The short answer is that we are an intelligent, social creature that evolved morality as a tool to help us survive as a species. Essentially, having developed intelligence the usual tools to ensure cooperation (chemicals like pheromones) or instinctive pre-programming were not sufficient so we simply evolved to care for each other. In many ways it is the fact that the system is so far from perfect that tells us this does not come from any kind of deity. This is also confirmed by the existence of sociopaths who are not considered normal as they lack this fundamental evolutionary facet. I do not see anything nihilist about this any-more than a lion caring for its young in a social group due to instinct is nihilist. Even the fact that there is self-interest in treating our fellow creatures well I find far less revolting than the idea that we are only being nice so some great deity in the sky doesn't fry our asses for eternity. Does this mean that morality is relative to the time and place you are born? Looking at changing attitudes to Sexual equality, race, sexual orientation, paedophilia, slavery and so on and so forth gotta go with a yes on that one - thankfully.  RE: Morality
June 12, 2013 at 11:44 pm
(This post was last modified: June 12, 2013 at 11:49 pm by crud.)
@
@Whateverist - You've misinterpreted what I've said. I said we do have a sense of right/wrong that comes from "the heart"(not purely the mind).... I'm asking how is this explained in atheist/naturalist/materialist terms. @Baalzebutt "Do you honestly think you have presented some kind of unique argument for morality?" - no, I don't. I was just asking from advice from the people who I thought would have done the reasearch and would be happy to help me out..... I'm not making a statement, I'm asking a question!!!! So go ahead, hand me my ass on a plate.. This is what I'm after! Even just a link to an essay/discussion will do! It's funny how me questioning the belief system I've been brought up with(atheism)... is just laughed at Talk about a double standard!! If my question is such a joke... then just enlighten me, I'm all ears... it's plain and simple! Didn't see this page.. thanks for the reply max-greece. can anyone link me to a more in depth discussion on the topic? A video would be great..? not in the mood for a lot of reading.
"You invoke nihilism as the only alternative to a god given 'objective' morality. Why do you ignore the rest of the vast centuries long conversation regarding ethics?"
I don't necessarily invoke nihilism as the only alternative.. It just appears that way to me... hence me being, here asking for others opinions.  (June 12, 2013 at 11:44 pm)crud Wrote: It's funny how me questioning the belief system I've been brought up with(atheism)... is just laughed at Your question has been answered twice now. If you are too fucking lazy to look around the forum for answers, perhaps you should fuck off to some other place that will do your research for you. Go to YouTube and do a search for atheist morals, you lazy fuck. There are tons of videos.
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe." -Einstein
@Rahul, thankyou
This is one example how something we call "love" could of evolved purely for preservation of the speices. But in a wider context it doesn't really fit the mold. Why do I care about the Africans starving to death? RE: Morality
June 13, 2013 at 12:03 am
(This post was last modified: June 13, 2013 at 12:04 am by Rahul.)
(June 12, 2013 at 11:57 pm)crud Wrote: Why do I care about the Africans starving to death? Most people that don't live in Africa do. Because it's an abstract concept. Abstract concepts are much more difficult to engage human emotions. It wasn't something that was necessary for our day to day lives living in small nomadic tribes. Someone starving and dieing in front of you will wretch your emotions out of your chest. Being told it's happening to random people you don't know thousands of miles away doesn't have that affect. For obviously evolutionary reasons. |
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