What is Your Approach?

[Locke]

Who's we?

When I say 'we' I simply mean people in general, not people on this forum, or atheists.. just people in general.

And no, I didn't make this post to prove you're all cherry-picking to support your views.
The Fireside Delusion is a great analogy. I completely relate to having to deal with religious people who, nearly unanimously, hold to their beliefs irrationally. While I know little of the people on this forum, I do know that most atheists I've met have been equally angry and irrational, so thus far it looks like it's just people, nonspecific to atheism or theism.

Furthermore, I will reiterate that I joined this forum in order to learn, not argue my stances.. I just wanted to see where your heads were at.

Still seems to me that, all bias aside, the lines of proof between atheism and theism are pretty even.. at least in most warring groups.

I have, however, decided to go with Christianity for a few reasons. I find it harder, more purpose-filled, and more rewarding than my life ever was before (I say that with a disclaimer: An overwhelming amount of people who say they are Christian don't fit the Bible definition of a Christian, or even know what that definition is).

The other big reason is that I heard the Bible has contradictions, extreme inconsistencies and errors, and historical inaccuracy, but when I looked into it myself I found all those claims to be bias and false.. which is a big statement considering the amount of claims there are. It seems to me this is due equally in part to non-christian groups attacking it, and pseudo-Christian groups claiming it teaches things it does not, either to fit their needs or in some demented hope it will make their point more valid, because they simply want it to be true.
The funny thing is, if they really knew what the Bible taught they wouldn't be so quick to advocate it =P

Now.. I'm basically staking my life on it being true, and to be honest it would be a whole lot easier if it wasn't.. but hey, here I am, asking around for evidence it isn't and nobody has been able to provide any. And yes, I understand your position when you say you don't feel a need to prove Atheism.. but while that's awesome, I am basically here to try and disprove Christianity, so I'm gonna keep looking for anything I can find.
I will clarify that what I have seen disproved is a myriad of things pseudo-Christians claim the Bible teaches, but that's really no surprise.

I've done 2 1/2 years of research into this, which is far from a lifetime, so I understand I've got a lot to learn, but if anyone wants to get past the constant bickering and jabbing and provide evidence (some of you seem to be doing that here, so I appreciate that) then I'm game to look into it.

---

It was the writings of Robert Green Ingersoll that helped me to denounce theism as nothing more than a silly fairy tale.

I'll check him out

[Rahul]

Now.. I'm basically staking my life on it being true, and to be honest it would be a whole lot easier if it wasn't.. but hey, here I am, asking around for evidence it isn't and nobody has been able to provide any.

You would like evidence of what exactly?

Evidence that the christian god doesn't exist perhaps? You can't prove a negative. I can't prove Zeus doesn't exist either.

If you are asking for evidence about something else just let me know and I will attempt to be of some assistance in the matter.

[Tonus]

If we really want to find answers to the questions we have, or find direction in our lives, can we really look it up on the Web? How do we know the person who wrote a wikipedia article has a better answer to the existence of God than we do? If God is just a projection of our psyche, then we can find every answer we need by asking google. In that case God wouldn't be worth seeking in the first place.

The nice thing about the internet is that it puts so much information at our fingertips. Not satisfied with the answer you got from Wikipedia? No worries, there are 14,552,187 other sites listed in response to your search.

Granted, 14,502,655 are porn sites. And the downside of the internet is that a lot of the information you find isn't reliable. But it beats flipping through book after book at the local library, and it's probably just as reliable as your superstitious next door neighbor. Yes, the one that keeps telling people about his experience being anal probed by little green men from Jupiter.

How different is it, getting information via a Google search or by checking Wikipedia references versus talking to a friend who probably got his information from the internet and his gossipy know-it-all aunt?

[Terr]

I started my deconversion process long before I had a computer, but I certainly appreciate how reliant we as a society are now. But, as pre-computer, verify your sources, is the information up to date and reliable.

As per your introdruction thread I'd still like to know, why you personally believe that there HAD to be a supernatural creator? I believed it for years myself during my post religious deist times, but I'd be honestly interested in your answer.

[ManMachine]

In our present age, we have more information at our fingertips than we can find time to process. With so many signals thrown at us, we tend to latch on to the simplistic answers we find to complex questions in life. When we want to know something, a quick google search sometimes suffices in place of a thorough investigation - after all, with so much to know there's little time to investigate every matter. We find quick results on wikipedia and turn around to spit out opinionated views on every subject. Rather than fleshing out the truth of a matter, we can decide what we think about something and then pull up the evidence that supports our claim.
If we really want to find answers to the questions we have, or find direction in our lives, can we really look it up on the Web? How do we know the person who wrote a wikipedia article has a better answer to the existence of God than we do? If God is just a projection of our psyche, then we can find every answer we need by asking google. In that case God wouldn't be worth seeking in the first place.

However, considering the possibility of whether or not God is real and existent outside of our psyche, the only way to derive the answer is through a more thorough search. Confronting the issue from an impatient angle can form a fruitless cycle. On the other hand, anyone willing to pay attention, consider and weigh all possibilities, will find answers.

But before we begin such an endeavor, we must honestly ask ourselves whether we are approaching the task with a determination to justify our opinions, negate another's stance, or discover the truth.

I just want to know who played Seven of Nine in Star Trek Voyager, google works fine for that.

MM

[Captain Colostomy]

Locke-

You ask us for evidence, but claim you have already determined that evidence given by atheists(and pseudo Christians) to be pure bias? If I understand you, any evidence that an atheist poses now would likely be dismissed as readily. I also think pseudo Christians would find the pseudo prefix actually belongs to you. A true Christian is a fabrication generated as a label...a label each fabricator wears proudly.

If you want a smoking gun, sorry to disappoint. If you want evidence to weigh, I suggest you discard the bias notion that atheists claims are automatically biased.

[Locke]

You ask us for evidence, but claim you have already determined that evidence given by atheists(and pseudo Christians) to be pure bias? If I understand you, any evidence that an atheist poses now would likely be dismissed as readily. I also think pseudo Christians would find the pseudo prefix actually belongs to you. A true Christian is a fabrication generated as a label...a label each fabricator wears proudly.

If you want a smoking gun, sorry to disappoint. If you want evidence to weigh, I suggest you discard the bias notion that atheists claims are automatically biased.

I think you somewhat misunderstood my stance. To word it more clearly, if anyone just throws their opinion at me and expects me to take it as hard fact, I'm not inclined to. Give me solid facts, or take facts and make clear deductions, and that's something I can work with. I won't credit it any differently. whether it comes from a theist, deist, agnostic, or atheist. In fact, I find the theists to be the least reasonable, if you want to rate them in groups.
_____________________________________________________________

As per your introdruction thread I'd still like to know, why you personally believe that there HAD to be a supernatural creator? I believed it for years myself during my post religious deist times, but I'd be honestly interested in your answer.

I've found enough historical evidence to convince me the Bible is both intact and accurate to its original text, which in turn caused me to consider giving it an honest chance, and when I put it into practice I found it to be true. It's a lot more practical than you probably realize (no offense with the statement, but I clarify that because most theists who preach it consider it relative in its absolutes, and absolute in its relatives, or whatever fits their needs at the time).
Seeing something work is convincing to me, especially when it goes beyond placebo effects and influences my environment consistently. By scientific procedure, it has been proven right thus far.

Evidence that the christian god doesn't exist perhaps? You can't prove a negative.

If that's the best argument, then why be gun-ho about Atheism either? Along that line of thinking, wouldn't it be equally incorrect? Why not just be Agnostic?

[FifthElement]

Question.

What do you think about this statement:

Historical evidence becomes less and less accurate the further you go in the past.

[Cato]

[Now.. I'm basically staking my life on it being true, ...

Staking your life? Is your politically correct sing-songy use of English ass now trying to convince me that believing in God is a matter of life or death? Jesus fucking tits!

How convenient for you and your ilk. You 'struggle' with your faith while other humans worry about not being hungry all the time. Where the fuck is your Christ with all his fish and loaves? Oh, that's right, he's busy fulfilling the prosperity gospel by ensuring that poor people give ten percent to charismatic assholes with a microphone.

[Kayenneh]

When I say 'we' I simply mean people in general, not people on this forum, or atheists.. just people in general.

This bugs me a lot. Generalizations, generalizations. If you're making a piece that's basically about source criticism and not taking the easy way out, you shouldn't do so yourself.

In our present age, we have more information at our fingertips than we can find time to process. With so many signals thrown at us, we tend to latch on to the simplistic answers we find to complex questions in life. When we want to know something, a quick google search sometimes suffices in place of a thorough investigation - after all, with so much to know there's little time to investigate every matter. We find quick results on wikipedia and turn around to spit out opinionated views on every subject. Rather than fleshing out the truth of a matter, we can decide what we think about something and then pull up the evidence that supports our claim.

Just because we have information more readily at our fingertips, doesn't mean that all of the information is corrupt. Once again, source criticism.

If we really want to find answers to the questions we have, or find direction in our lives, can we really look it up on the Web? How do we know the person who wrote a wikipedia article has a better answer to the existence of God than we do?

Actually yes, the internet is a brilliant place to find scientific articles containing decent studies, confirming or rejecting my ideas.

However, considering the possibility of whether or not God is real and existent outside of our psyche, the only way to derive the answer is through a more thorough search. Confronting the issue from an impatient angle can form a fruitless cycle. On the other hand, anyone willing to pay attention, consider and weigh all possibilities, will find answers.

You talk about this like it's a new subject. As long as there have been gods, there have been skeptics. And even better, in this modern day, especially thanks to the internet, I don't only have to read the books, essays and studies, I can more easily go straight to the source and contact the people behind it all.

But before we begin such an endeavor, we must honestly ask ourselves whether we are approaching the task with a determination to justify our opinions, negate another's stance, or discover the truth.

Hmmm.. This smells of self-satisfaction to me. I'm sorry to be blunt, but just because it took long for you to figure out your stance in life, it doesn't mean that everyone else need to. Actually, it makes you seem fickle more than anything else.