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Genocide in the Old Testament
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 (September 19, 2013 at 2:51 pm)Rationalman Wrote: Why aren't there any other theists leaping to back John up? What a mystery!Why are atheists piling in and taking pot shots at John V. No mystery there, it frequently happens when my opponents are losing. Queue "It's not about winning to us" whine in 3..2..1.. 
You can win if you crack open a case full of compelling evidence which no-one ass of yet is feasting their eyes upon.
 (September 19, 2013 at 2:43 pm)Zone Wrote: Is killing humans wrong because God says so or does God say killing humans is wrong because it's wrong? I think you can simplify it with "if god says it is wrong, it is wrong. If god says it is right, it is right. If god takes a particular action, that action is right by default, unless you think you can punish god yourself." I think that what many Christians describe is covered by that. God is above humanity in every way you can imagine. And the rules do not apply to him because he makes the rules. And the first rule of God Club is that the rules don't apply to god. I think a case can be logically made that god is to us as we are to whichever "lower" life form we want to choose. But I think that it requires that we reject or redefine nearly every descriptive property we would apply to god. Loving. Generous. Concerned. I don't think these apply to god the way we apply them to each other, if we are basing our understanding of god on the principle that might makes right and that a creator has the right to do as he wishes with his creation.
"Well, evolution is a theory. It is also a fact. And facts and theories are different things, not rungs in a hierarchy of increasing certainty. Facts are the world's data. Theories are structures of ideas that explain and interpret facts. Facts don't go away when scientists debate rival theories to explain them. Einstein's theory of gravitation replaced Newton's in this century, but apples didn't suspend themselves in midair, pending the outcome. And humans evolved from ape- like ancestors whether they did so by Darwin's proposed mechanism or by some other yet to be discovered."
-Stephen Jay Gould RE: Genocide in the Old Testament
September 19, 2013 at 3:07 pm
(This post was last modified: September 19, 2013 at 3:07 pm by Zone.)
(September 19, 2013 at 3:00 pm)Tonus Wrote: I think you can simplify it with "if god says it is wrong, it is wrong. If god says it is right, it is right. If god takes a particular action, that action is right by default, unless you think you can punish god yourself." I think that what many Christians describe is covered by that. God is above humanity in every way you can imagine. And the rules do not apply to him because he makes the rules. And the first rule of God Club is that the rules don't apply to god. But then the God of the Old Testament commanded the Jews to kill every last, man, woman, child, baby, dog and anything that moved. If God says it then it has to be good and you can't disagree.  (September 19, 2013 at 2:57 pm)John V Wrote:(September 19, 2013 at 2:51 pm)Rationalman Wrote: Why aren't there any other theists leaping to back John up? What a mystery!Why are atheists piling in and taking pot shots at John V. No mystery there, it frequently happens when my opponents are losing. Delusional and cocky. You have quite the future ahead of you in politics. 
I'm still waiting for the answer to what criteria we should use to judge god's perfection. If the bible claims he is perfect, his actions should demonstrate that, yet what counts for an imperfection in humans is not an imperfection for god. So, how do we determine if the bible's claim is true?
Even if the open windows of science at first make us shiver after the cozy indoor warmth of traditional humanizing myths, in the end the fresh air brings vigor, and the great spaces have a splendor of their own - Bertrand Russell
(September 19, 2013 at 3:08 pm)Faith No More Wrote: I'm still waiting for the answer to what criteria we should use to judge god's perfection. If the bible claims he is perfect, his actions should demonstrate that, yet what counts for an imperfection in humans is not an imperfection for god. So, how do we determine if the bible's claim is true?I've already noted that the Bible's claim is circular and so cannot be evaluated. (September 19, 2013 at 3:08 pm)Faith No More Wrote: I'm still waiting for the answer to what criteria we should use to judge god's perfection. If the bible claims he is perfect, his actions should demonstrate that, yet what counts for an imperfection in humans is not an imperfection for god. So, how do we determine if the bible's claim is true? In Soviet Russia, God judge's you! |
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