Poverty is a criminal offense in America.

[CapnAwesome]

I lived in a developing nation for the majority of my life. I've seen families who have to sell their children so they can keep the rest alive. My mum was almost sold when she was a child, my aunt was almost sold when she was a newborn. All the girls in that family starved for most of their childhood and worked throughout their childhood. My uncle's sister was sold as a baby. I fucking know what poor is. Try to raise a family in poverty, then tell me money is a detriment to your happiness.

I'm not sure that you are really arguing against what I'm saying. In fact the disparity between what poverty means in most of the world and what it means here is exactly what I was trying to imprint on Brian.

I mean that's my point about the third world vs. a bunch of whiney spoiled westerners in the United States. Poverty here just doesn't mean the same thing. Not to mention that the world is already environmentally incapable of supporting the number of first world citizens that we have. People in the future will be forced to live with less regardless of whether or not they think they are entitled to cars and flat screen tvs.

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First off, just to reiterate, I'd be very surprised if anyone on these boards made less money in a year than me. I'm waaaay below the poverty line. I live off of around 3000 dollars a year and have so for the last half a decade. So when you guys try to lecture me on what the poor are like, you sound like asses. Also I've noticed that there are a number of inconsistencies in the claims made about 'the poor' They are hungry because they are poor, they are overweight because they are poor, so and so can't afford his car insurance because he's poor, (really throws me for a loop that someone can own a car and be poor.) An overweight guy with a car isn't poor. By what standard is the definition even set. I think maybe before you guys launch into tirades about what the poor are, you need to get a handle on the definition.

Also if it's unfair to compare to the average person in the world, by what standard do you judge who is poor and who isn't? Also are you guys aware that it is perfectly compatible to be both poor and happy. In fact some studies have shown that indeed, money is a detriment to happiness.

3,000 a year, living where? You'd be lying your ass off if you said America, you'd have to be on disability AND food stamps and medicade and live in a family members house, and not have a car or pay rent, to make that work. Otherwise you are lying your fucking ass off.

I agree money is a detriment to happiness but it is not the poor making it the issue it is the real welfare queens Corporate America.

I don't want to be uber rich or even rich. I would like enough to pay my bills though.

I don't have a car or pay rent. I think that's exactly what traps people into wage slavery. I work around 4 weeks a year and then do whatever I feel like for the rest of the year. Mostly travel and rock climb. Why do you think a car is necessary to live? They destroy the environment, are prohibitively expensive and totally unnecessary for most people. We are just so propagandized that we need one, most people don't even consider not having one. I'll probably never own one again. I also think being left out of this discussion is the environmental impact of people who just can't live simply. In Collapse, Jared Diamond claimed that your average first world citizen has 16 times the environmental impact of a third world citizen. The world can't environmentally support the standard of living that we've convinced people that they need. People need to start living more simply. I don't feel bad for someone living in a small apartment with other people. If someone is unhappy because they are poor, they aren't going to be happy if they are rich.

Shouldn't the whole discussion be about what'll make people happy, not about money disparity.

[pineapplebunnybounce]

I lived in a developing nation for the majority of my life. I've seen families who have to sell their children so they can keep the rest alive. My mum was almost sold when she was a child, my aunt was almost sold when she was a newborn. All the girls in that family starved for most of their childhood and worked throughout their childhood. My uncle's sister was sold as a baby. I fucking know what poor is. Try to raise a family in poverty, then tell me money is a detriment to your happiness.

I'm not sure that you are really arguing against what I'm saying. In fact the disparity between what poverty means in most of the world and what it means here is exactly what I was trying to imprint on Brian.

I mean that's my point about the third world vs. a bunch of whiney spoiled westerners in the United States. Poverty here just doesn't mean the same thing. Not to mention that the world is already environmentally incapable of supporting the number of first world citizens that we have. People in the future will be forced to live with less regardless of whether or not they think they are entitled to cars and flat screen tvs.

My point was that the inequality we're seeing right now is benefiting a small portion of people and causing a lot of harm to a lot of people and not fixing it will just cause it to get worse. And yea, I didn't really say that in my previous posts but that's my point and that's why it shouldn't be compared to other countries nor to people who can survive on less because there are plenty that have families and even 3000 per person per year would mean one person earning 12-15k per year.

[Brian37]

Yep and that is the fucking problem. YOU think proving yourself is slavery? You are a moron and it is no wonder you think 3,000 dollars is good enough.

Wallmart's family makes 1,200 dollars an hour for every 1 a store clerk makes. You serving that gap mentality is what is keeping you at 3,000 an a year. You are as stupid fool for thinking 3,000 dollars is enough.

They real crybabies are the billionaires who say they cant afford it.

I've been living off of it quite well for more than 4 years. I'm happy. I think that's pretty good evidence that it's good enough. Money isn't the key to happiness and your obsession with it is a little troubling.

The Waltons making money doesn't have anything to do with my happiness. If people in this country, and that includes everyone, don't learn to live with less than they are going to be in big trouble in the coming century. I really don't know why I'm even arguing with you.

FUCK OFF, "live with less" translation, bow to the global sweat shop economy. If you like being an idiot you can, I am not an idiot and I do not think our wages are doing good for anyone.

You think saying "fuck the pay gap" is going to solve our consumerism dependency? Moron.

[pineapplebunnybounce]

In fact some studies have shown that indeed, money is a detriment to happiness.

I'd be interested to see a link to this. I'm aware of studies showing that happiness plateaus at a certain level of income, but this is new.

I'm from a different life camp. My family isn't top 1%, but they're definitely top 5-10% income-wise. I inherited enough money to live well and do whatever I please- like being an old-ass grad student. It's absolutely awesome, and I never take it for granted, and I volunteer my ass off to help others.

it's always such a big difference when i compare my life to rich people's lives. I don't care much for the material goods, but If I am being honest I definitely really want that feeling that it's ok if I screw up, my family will still be fine. And also the fact that you can do whatever you like and not worry about income is definitely enviable, my choice of education has always been motivated by potential income.

[CapnAwesome]

I'd be interested to see a link to this. I'm aware of studies showing that happiness plateaus at a certain level of income, but this is new.

I'm from a different life camp. My family isn't top 1%, but they're definitely top 5-10% income-wise. I inherited enough money to live well and do whatever I please- like being an old-ass grad student. It's absolutely awesome, and I never take it for granted, and I volunteer my ass off to help others.

it's always such a big difference when i compare my life to rich people's lives. I don't care much for the material goods, but If I am being honest I definitely really want that feeling that it's ok if I screw up, my family will still be fine. And also the fact that you can do whatever you like and not worry about income is definitely enviable, my choice of education has always been motivated by potential income.

First off thank you for the kind words, I think my life is awesome. At a certain point I decided that the rat race and pursuit of wealth was never going to make me happy. I think there is a point where things are very different when you have a family, it would be extremely difficult to do what I do with a family. However I also come from a relatively well off family that was extremely dysfunctional.

First hand I saw that material security is not a fair trade for freedom and happiness. It's an amazing moment when you realize that you don't have to do whatever makes you the most money, but rather can just do whatever you like in life.

[Brian37]

I'd be interested to see a link to this. I'm aware of studies showing that happiness plateaus at a certain level of income, but this is new.

I'm from a different life camp. My family isn't top 1%, but they're definitely top 5-10% income-wise. I inherited enough money to live well and do whatever I please- like being an old-ass grad student. It's absolutely awesome, and I never take it for granted, and I volunteer my ass off to help others.

it's always such a big difference when i compare my life to rich people's lives. I don't care much for the material goods, but If I am being honest I definitely really want that feeling that it's ok if I screw up, my family will still be fine. And also the fact that you can do whatever you like and not worry about income is definitely enviable, my choice of education has always been motivated by potential income.

"Potential income", we are not talking about what you personally want in your life, we are talking about the bottom dropping too much. 57 trillion GDP there is no reason the big boys cant do better in pay for EVERYONE.

Um people like to think of fast food work as simply the bottom rung people eventually climb out of. So if the highschoolers or college kids are in class who is there serving you your food? Who is working at that gas station? Who is cleaning that office? Who is mowing that lawn?

Sorry but it isn't a matter of stopping you from doing what you want with your life. But most people work for someone else, and most people increasingly including the middle class are not getting paid enough PERIOD, no matter where they end up in life.

Japan has janitors and fry cooks too, what they don't have is the pay gap.

[CapnAwesome]

I've been living off of it quite well for more than 4 years. I'm happy. I think that's pretty good evidence that it's good enough. Money isn't the key to happiness and your obsession with it is a little troubling.

The Waltons making money doesn't have anything to do with my happiness. If people in this country, and that includes everyone, don't learn to live with less than they are going to be in big trouble in the coming century. I really don't know why I'm even arguing with you.

FUCK OFF, "live with less" translation, bow to the global sweat shop economy. If you like being an idiot you can, I am not an idiot and I do not think our wages are doing good for anyone.

You think saying "fuck the pay gap" is going to solve our consumerism dependency? Moron.

Wow, you really are reading between the lines. So much so that you are seeing something that's not even remotely like what I said. It sounds like you are arguing with someone else entirely. I'm not exactly surprised, last time I made the mistake of interacting with you on here we were talking about speed limits and you said if I don't like speed limits I should go live in Somalia. I almost think the level of strawmanning that you do should be considered a form of art.

[Optimistic Mysanthrope]

Money is like sex and oxygen: It's only unimportant to those who have enough of it.

I don't have a car or pay rent. I think that's exactly what traps people into wage slavery. I work around 4 weeks a year and then do whatever I feel like for the rest of the year. Mostly travel and rock climb.

And if it wasn't for people who think differently, you most likely would have died years ago from smallpox, cholera, tuberculosis etc.

[pineapplebunnybounce]

it's always such a big difference when i compare my life to rich people's lives. I don't care much for the material goods, but If I am being honest I definitely really want that feeling that it's ok if I screw up, my family will still be fine. And also the fact that you can do whatever you like and not worry about income is definitely enviable, my choice of education has always been motivated by potential income.

"Potential income", we are not talking about what you personally want in your life, we are talking about the bottom dropping too much. 57 trillion GDP there is no reason the big boys cant do better in pay for EVERYONE.

Um people like to think of fast food work as simply the bottom rung people eventually climb out of. So if the highschoolers or college kids are in class who is there serving you your food? Who is working at that gas station? Who is cleaning that office? Who is mowing that lawn?

Sorry but it isn't a matter of stopping you from doing what you want with your life. But most people work for someone else, and most people increasingly including the middle class are not getting paid enough PERIOD, no matter where they end up in life.

Japan has janitors and fry cooks too, what they don't have is the pay gap.

Dude what are you even talking about? I was just making a casual comment.

And Capn, thanks for acknowledging that your method is not viable for families which are really a huge part of those who live in poverty.

[Brian37]

I don't have a car or pay rent. I think that's exactly what traps people into wage slavery. I work around 4 weeks a year and then do whatever I feel like for the rest of the year. Mostly travel and rock climb.

You are leaving something out. 3k does not support anyone in this country, so unless you have help(family giving you shelter and or or someone else is financially supporting you, or government assistance), you are flat out lying your ass off. And you say you travel too? HA!

I admit to having family help myself, but 3k here in the sticks would not cut it.

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"Potential income", we are not talking about what you personally want in your life, we are talking about the bottom dropping too much. 57 trillion GDP there is no reason the big boys cant do better in pay for EVERYONE.

Um people like to think of fast food work as simply the bottom rung people eventually climb out of. So if the highschoolers or college kids are in class who is there serving you your food? Who is working at that gas station? Who is cleaning that office? Who is mowing that lawn?

Sorry but it isn't a matter of stopping you from doing what you want with your life. But most people work for someone else, and most people increasingly including the middle class are not getting paid enough PERIOD, no matter where they end up in life.

Japan has janitors and fry cooks too, what they don't have is the pay gap.

Dude what are you even talking about? I was just making a casual comment.

And Capn, thanks for acknowledging that your method is not viable for families which are really a huge part of those who live in poverty.

It's not viable for single people either. I think he has help he is not admitting to.

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CPT Awesome would have us believe he lives off of $250 a month with no help. Lying his ass off.