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RE: If there is no God, then, one may ask
December 11, 2013 at 6:04 am
(December 11, 2013 at 5:13 am)Stimbo Wrote: Here's how the false dichotomy thing plays out. I pose the question as follows: who holds up the sky if Ceiling Cat doesn't exist?
The replies come in saying, basically, don't be silly; of course Ceiling Cat doesn't hold up the sky, and why must it be a 'who'. I respond by saying "very well, if you think Ceiling Cat doesn't hold up the sky, give your reasoning why it must be Godzilla."
That, in a nutshell, is why we are saying the question is malformed - because, apart from maybe one vote given ironically, nobody is saying with any seriousness that it must be man governing human life etc instead of a god. Indeed, since the OP is trying to make the case that it has to be a god doing this stuff - since quite obviously it can't be a man - then we would all, I'm sure, be very interested to see the reasons and evidence to support that, instead of the fallacy of the excluded middle.
I did not ask who holds up the sky. I noticed every atheist out there is trying to sound smart or something, it leads em to winded up posts that lead em nowhere.
Here is a question for you genius, having being put much more simpler.
If there is no God, then, who governs your life and, in general, the whole order of things in your life?
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RE: If there is no God, then, one may ask
December 11, 2013 at 6:17 am
(This post was last modified: December 11, 2013 at 6:20 am by Cyberman.)
I didn't say you asked who holds up the sky, "genius". I used that as an example to illustrate how silly your question is. I apologise for not realising you have a problem with reading comprehension.
It doesn't matter how many different iterations of the question you can come up with - you're still positing a false dilemma: either "God" or someone else. First of all, I take issue with the classification of "God" as a person. Beyond that, however, it is still just as silly to ask your question in the way you do, as it is to ask "which is correct: the yolk of an egg is white, or the yolk of an egg are white?"
How about neither?
Or, to be more accurate in view of your restated question: I govern my life, to the extent that I have control over the things within my influence, and as far as that control ties in with external influences including other people governing their lives. Savvy?
At the age of five, Skagra decided emphatically that God did not exist. This revelation tends to make most people in the universe who have it react in one of two ways - with relief or with despair. Only Skagra responded to it by thinking, 'Wait a second. That means there's a situation vacant.'
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RE: If there is no God, then, one may ask
December 11, 2013 at 6:28 am
(This post was last modified: December 11, 2013 at 6:29 am by Jacob(smooth).)
(December 11, 2013 at 6:17 am)Stimbo Wrote: I didn't say you asked who holds up the sky, "genius". I used that as an example to illustrate how silly your question is. I apologise for not realising you have a problem with reading comprehension.
It doesn't matter how many different iterations of the question you can come up with - you're still positing a false dilemma: either "God" or someone else. First of all, I take issue with the classification of "God" as a person. Beyond that, however, it is still just as silly to ask your question in the way you do, as it is to ask "which is correct: the yolk of an egg is white, or the yolk of an egg are white?"
How about neither?
Or, to be more accurate in view of your restated question: I govern my life, to the extent that I have control over the things within my influence, and as far as that control ties in with external influences including other people governing their lives. Savvy?
Perhaps if you used shorter words and line drawings...
Quote:
If there is no God, then, who governs your life and, in general, the whole order of things in your life?
FUCKING NOBODY!!!!
My 7 year old could grasp this. They don't believe that anybody governs their lives. Your question makes makes makes no sense whatsoever. You might as well ask, who sings the theme song to friends at the north pole every Christmas if not God eh? Nobody else could do it so it MUST be God.
I had no idea that a Christian could fail so hard at theology!
"Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken."
Sith code
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RE: If there is no God, then, one may ask
December 11, 2013 at 6:39 am
(December 11, 2013 at 6:17 am)Stimbo Wrote: I didn't say you asked who holds up the sky, "genius". I used that as an example to illustrate how silly your question is. I apologise for not realising you have a problem with reading comprehension.
It doesn't matter how many different iterations of the question you can come up with - you're still positing a false dilemma: either "God" or someone else. First of all, I take issue with the classification of "God" as a person. Beyond that, however, it is still just as silly to ask your question in the way you do, as it is to ask "which is correct: the yolk of an egg is white, or the yolk of an egg are white?"
How about neither?
Or, to be more accurate in view of your restated question: I govern my life, to the extent that I have control over the things within my influence, and as far as that control ties in with external influences including other people governing their lives. Savvy? What does mean you govern to the extent? Either you have control over your life or not?
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RE: If there is no God, then, one may ask
December 11, 2013 at 6:56 am
(This post was last modified: December 11, 2013 at 6:56 am by Cyberman.)
I didn't say "govern to the extent. I said "I govern my life" (ie, no gods necessary) "to the extent that I have control over the things within my influence, and as far as that control ties in with external influences including other people governing their lives." Reading comprehension - it's not just for other people.
Put another way, I can decide what I do today and how I do those things. If I choose to visit a friend or go shopping, I have the control over doing that. The control I have over myself is absolute, inasmuch as I have the casting vote over my body. Such control is limited, though, when my actions come into contact with the real world outside myself - the shops may be closed, my friend may be out. There are some factors over which I have zero control: I have no way of knowing (prophet though I am ) whether this is the day that speeding car cuts me down.
Basically, I'm just the same as every other living creature since the dawn of life. If there is a god, as you're trying to assert, precisely where does it fit within the world? And why, since we do it all by ourselves anyway?
At the age of five, Skagra decided emphatically that God did not exist. This revelation tends to make most people in the universe who have it react in one of two ways - with relief or with despair. Only Skagra responded to it by thinking, 'Wait a second. That means there's a situation vacant.'
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RE: If there is no God, then, one may ask
December 11, 2013 at 6:58 am
(December 11, 2013 at 6:04 am)DOS Wrote: If there is no God, then, who governs your life and, in general, the whole order of things in your life? OK, I'll play.
I govern my life with the following caveats:
1. within the framework established by my personal values, the culture in which I live & the gestalt global culture with which my culture interacts
2. further constrained by the nature of reality described by the laws of physics, chemistry & biology (many of which are not understood)
The answers you anticipated constitute a false dichotomy based on faulty premises; the situation is far more complex & complicated than you're prepared to accept, obviously.
Sum ergo sum
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RE: If there is no God, then, one may ask
December 11, 2013 at 7:24 am
(December 10, 2013 at 2:22 am)DOS Wrote: who governs human life and, in general, the whole order of things on earth? These things work in what we call an analogue fashion.
Analogue, meaning each object does its own "processing" and produces the appropriate response.
A plant receives light from the sun, performs photosynthesis, captures carbon and releases Oxygen into the atmosphere.
The light from the sun hits the photosynthesis cells in the plant's leaves and a part of that light is absorbed... another part is reflected, some is still refracted.
Absorption of light entails the increase of energy of some electron, or of some atomic or molecular bond.
Reflection happens when the very light wavelength that is absorbed, is also emitted, usually by some electron returning to a lower energetic orbital, but also due to the whole structure's vibration... what we perceive as temperature and can be measured by Infra-red thermography.
Refraction happens when light travels near a corner or slit with a dimension of the order of the wavelength... some photons get scattered, some get through... you get a nice interference pattern.
And this is just a tiny drop of what a plant is doing...
Each electron, each proton, each neutron... is doing its thing.
No one is required to keep them doing their things.
So, to answer your question: no one is governing things on Earth, nor on any other celestial body. The electrons and atoms are working as they do and there's nothing changing that.
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RE: If there is no God, then, one may ask
December 11, 2013 at 7:59 am
Stimbo
Quote:I said "I govern my life" (ie, no gods necessary)
Ben Davis
Quote:I govern my life
That was easy isn't it? May be there are more people who will say - they govern their lives and the general order of things in their lives?
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RE: If there is no God, then, one may ask
December 11, 2013 at 8:04 am
Is there a point to all this? And can we get to it quickly?
At the age of five, Skagra decided emphatically that God did not exist. This revelation tends to make most people in the universe who have it react in one of two ways - with relief or with despair. Only Skagra responded to it by thinking, 'Wait a second. That means there's a situation vacant.'
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RE: If there is no God, then, one may ask
December 11, 2013 at 8:04 am
Dos,
Can you not even allow yourself enough mental freedom to imagine a world with no god, and thus no god control? Can you not even understand complex beings and actions amassing from ever smaller and ever more simple component actions?
We are who we are because of the individual microscopic cells that make up our body. Those cells became ever more successful in reproducing by being nudged trillions of times by their environment and their inherent variability. We are composites that simply learned so well to react with the environment we attained a level of complexity we describe as a conscience. With our "conscience" we imagined gods to explain things we don't understand. It really is that simple.
Find the cure for Fundementia!
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