Atheists, George Zimmerman and the burden of proof

[là bạn điên]

Zimmerman was probably guilty of murdering Trayvon Martin. However, everyone (especially African-Americans) should celebrate the fact that lack of evidence translates into an innocent verdict even when society wants that person lynched.

He was certainly NOT guilty of murder. He may have been guilty of manslaughter.

[Mudhammam]

Zimmerman was probably guilty of murdering Trayvon Martin. However, everyone (especially African-Americans) should celebrate the fact that lack of evidence translates into an innocent verdict even when society wants that person lynched.

He was certainly NOT guilty of murder. He may have been guilty of manslaughter.

He stalked the kid and then shot him. We know that. We don't know who initially attacked who but Stand Your Ground was Trayovn's right too, you know.

[là bạn điên]

He stalked the kid and then shot him. We know that. We don't know who initially attacked who but Stand Your Ground was Trayovn's right too, you know.

He did not 'Stalk' anyone' Stalking has a precise legal meaning and openly following someone is not 'stalking them' either legally or by any other usuage. In a non legal sense it would mean following stealithily. He did neither. We have no evidence at all the Zimmerman did anything illegal.

We only know that Martin was shot by Zimmerman. Martin had a a right to stand his ground but did not have a right to attack Zimmerman merely for following him.

[Isun]

Actually criminal stalking does include openly following someone. Especially if the intent is to cause fear.

I don't disagree that it would rise to the level of stalking, yet I do suspect that George was stalking and caused Trayvon to fear for his safety. The smart thing for Trayvon was to have called the police, but instead he may or may not have confronted Zimmerman. We don't know. What we do know is that George created the circumstances that caused the death of Trayvon.

We know the "stand your ground" from not only this case but others, has been used not to protect themselves, but to legally murder another person for "whatever" reason they feel like.

And yes I know that "murder" legally is defined as the unlawful taking of another life, but it amounts to the same. Legal murder.

Case 1, Guy jumps a fence following someone and kills that man.

Case 2, guy doesn't like the music that someone is playing in his car, Fear of his life is his excuse for murdering that young man.

And these aren't isolated cases. This is just many of the common cases that are either being dropped or being prosecuted in court today.

It is also been shown that if you are black, you are less likely to win a case based on "stand your ground" then if you are white. A strong indication that this is being used and excused on racist views or stereotypes of Young black men.


When is Florida going to learn that their law creates circumstances where people can with impunity kill another and then claim, " I feared for my life".

[là bạn điên]

Actually criminal stalking does include openly following someone. Especially if the intent is to cause fear.

Please link to the relevant Florida statute.

I don't disagree that it would rise to the level of stalking, yet I do suspect that George was stalking and caused Trayvon to fear for his safety.

You have not given any evidence to that effect

The smart thing for Trayvon was to have called the police,

Or at least go straight home which we know for certain that he didn't do. We don;t know for sure that he doubled back and attacked Zimmerman but it is the most probable theory.

but instead he may or may not have confronted Zimmerman. We don't know. What we do know is that George created the circumstances that caused the death of Trayvon.

What is this use of first names about? Are they your personal friends? IF Martin attacked Zimmerman then Martin is entirely to blame. It was entirely legal for Zimmerman to follow Martin. If Martin decided to double back and attack Zimmerman then HE created the circumstances that lead to his death

We know the "stand your ground" from not only this case but others, has been used not to protect themselves, but to legally murder another person for "whatever" reason they feel like.

And yes I know that "murder" legally is defined as the unlawful taking of another life, but it amounts to the same. Legal murder.[/quote]

No. Just use legal killing or you just become another twat who twists terms ,but then you did that with 'stalking'.

Case 1, Guy jumps a fence following someone and kills that man.

Case 2, guy doesn't like the music that someone is playing in his car, Fear of his life is his excuse for murdering that young man.

And these aren't isolated cases. This is just many of the common cases that are either being dropped or being prosecuted in court today.

It is also been shown that if you are black, you are less likely to win a case based on "stand your ground" then if you are white. A strong indication that this is being used and excused on racist views or stereotypes of Young black men.

Your cases have no links . Are you claiming that young black men are no more likley to commit crime than any other combination of race sex and sex?

When is Florida going to learn that their law creates circumstances where people can with impunity kill another and then claim, " I feared for my life".

When are people going to learn that you can;t just double back and attack someone because they appear to be following you?

[Isun]

1)http://www.sa18.state.fl.us/page/stalking.html

2) Evidence? Yet you exonerate Zimmerman without any evidence. Nor was there any evidence that Martin confronter or was a threat to Zimmerman. Nice that you use a double standard.

3) We don't know what happened, but most likely Martin was in fear of his life after being confronted by Zimmerman.

4) Blaming the victum doesn't make it his fault. Zimmerman had no business following the boy. And 17 is a boy.

5) I am sorry, I didn't realize that you think that the world is better being the wild west and whoever win's walks away scot free. Me. I prefer a civilized country, not a barbaric one.

6) There is a reason we have the police. They are trained to investigate these types of issues. If George zimmerman had done the right thing, he would have left it to the police and no one would have been hurt. Zimmerman had no business following especially once he notified the police. As to the cases, you must never pay any attention to the news. Both cases are being heavily covered in the news.

7) I would say that one of the many reasons that "blacks" are convicted more often than whites or appears to anyways, is because of discrimination. Perfect example are drug laws. Blacks are no more likely to use drugs than whites, yet Blacks are far more likely to be stopped, arrested and convicted than whites.

8) I have no clue what you mean in your last comment. but the issue is that Florida law encourages more gun violence and makes it much more likely that innocent people will die unnecessarily.

[là bạn điên]

1)http://www.sa18.state.fl.us/page/stalking.html

Thank you. In the very first line of your link it says Stalking is defined in the State of Florida as "willfully, maliciously, and repeatedly following, harassing or cyberstalking" another. I presume you don;t understand what 'repeatedly' means . Clearly this is NOT an issue here.

2) Evidence? Yet you exonerate Zimmerman without any evidence. Nor was there any evidence that Martin confronter or was a threat to Zimmerman. Nice that you use a double standard.

I find Zimmerman not guilty without evidence. That's how the system works. I haven't found martin ' guilty' either

3) We don't know what happened, but most likely Martin was in fear of his life after being confronted by Zimmerman.

That's highly unlikely since it is clear that Martin was on his way home and then chose NOT to go home

4) Blaming the victum doesn't make it his fault. Zimmerman had no business following the boy. And 17 is a boy.

It is not unlawful to follow a 17 year old.

5) I am sorry, I didn't realize that you think that the world is better being the wild west and whoever win's walks away scot free. Me. I prefer a civilized country, not a barbaric one.

I am in fovour of very strict gun control as it happens. I believe in a civilised world where people are not found guilty in advance of a trial because it fits your racial narrative

6) There is a reason we have the police. They are trained to investigate these types of issues. If George zimmerman had done the right thing, he would have left it to the police and no one would have been hurt. Zimmerman had no business following especially once he notified the police. As to the cases, you must never pay any attention to the news. Both cases are being heavily covered in the news.

I have paid great attention. As it happens he did report it to the Police. Zimmerman had every lawful right to follow wether he notified the police or not.

7) I would say that one of the many reasons that "blacks" are convicted more often than whites or appears to anyways, is because of discrimination. Perfect example are drug laws. Blacks are no more likely to use drugs than whites, yet Blacks are far more likely to be stopped, arrested and convicted than whites.

lets try again. Are you claiming that Black people are no more likley to commit crime than white people?

8) I have no clue what you mean in your last comment. but the issue is that Florida law encourages more gun violence and makes it much more likely that innocent people will die unnecessarily.

My last comment was clear. Martin did not go straight home. He chose an option to come into contact with Zimmerman and precipitated a confrontation.

[kılıç_mehmet]

Wow, this Zimmerman is still an issue in the US? The verdict was I think a very clear "not guilty". What is there to discuss about this?

[Isun]

1)http://www.sa18.state.fl.us/page/stalking.html

Thank you. In the very first line of your link it says Stalking is defined in the State of Florida as "willfully, maliciously, and repeatedly following, harassing or cyberstalking" another. I presume you don;t understand what 'repeatedly' means . Clearly this is NOT an issue here.

2) Evidence? Yet you exonerate Zimmerman without any evidence. Nor was there any evidence that Martin confronter or was a threat to Zimmerman. Nice that you use a double standard.

I find Zimmerman not guilty without evidence. That's how the system works. I haven't found martin ' guilty' either

3) We don't know what happened, but most likely Martin was in fear of his life after being confronted by Zimmerman.

That's highly unlikely since it is clear that Martin was on his way home and then chose NOT to go home

4) Blaming the victum doesn't make it his fault. Zimmerman had no business following the boy. And 17 is a boy.

It is not unlawful to follow a 17 year old.

5) I am sorry, I didn't realize that you think that the world is better being the wild west and whoever win's walks away scot free. Me. I prefer a civilized country, not a barbaric one.

I am in fovour of very strict gun control as it happens. I believe in a civilised world where people are not found guilty in advance of a trial because it fits your racial narrative

6) There is a reason we have the police. They are trained to investigate these types of issues. If George zimmerman had done the right thing, he would have left it to the police and no one would have been hurt. Zimmerman had no business following especially once he notified the police. As to the cases, you must never pay any attention to the news. Both cases are being heavily covered in the news.

I have paid great attention. As it happens he did report it to the Police. Zimmerman had every lawful right to follow wether he notified the police or not.

7) I would say that one of the many reasons that "blacks" are convicted more often than whites or appears to anyways, is because of discrimination. Perfect example are drug laws. Blacks are no more likely to use drugs than whites, yet Blacks are far more likely to be stopped, arrested and convicted than whites.

lets try again. Are you claiming that Black people are no more likley to commit crime than white people?

8) I have no clue what you mean in your last comment. but the issue is that Florida law encourages more gun violence and makes it much more likely that innocent people will die unnecessarily.

My last comment was clear. Martin did not go straight home. He chose an option to come into contact with Zimmerman and precipitated a confrontation.

Actually there is no confusion about the stalking rule. I just pointed out that your definition is wrong. I didn't say that Zimmerman stalked him. You might try comprehending what you read better.


And you have no idea if that is true about Martin. We only heard Zimmerman's side and guess what. We can be sure he lied through his teeth. But there wasn't evidence enough to say otherwise. Because Zimmerman killed the boy.

As to whether blacks are more likely to do crimes? I suspect that whites committ as many crimes as blacks do. Blacks just get convicted more often.

And why? Because of states like Florida.

[EgoRaptor]

Wow, this Zimmerman is still an issue in the US? The verdict was I think a very clear "not guilty". What is there to discuss about this?

Zimmerman is still essential to the left. He is being used to push the idea that blacks are perpetually oppressed & in constant need of white people feeling guilty about being white.