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RE: Ok I admit it
March 6, 2014 at 5:35 pm
(March 6, 2014 at 5:13 pm)ThePinsir Wrote: Ok, I made a positive claim that the metaphysical action didn't happen. I'll concede that was wrong. I can't prove it.
Neither can you prove it did.
Therefore, we stick with the null hypothesis, right?
Kudos for your honesty
No I can't prove it physically. But do I need to? As it isn't physically possible to prove, we needn't even try.
Then we get on to addressing metaphysical questions. All we can use is logic for that. We use what is logical in the physical world, because if God created it, we can reverse engineer what else might be logically of possible.
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RE: Ok I admit it
March 6, 2014 at 5:35 pm
(March 6, 2014 at 5:24 pm)fr0d0 Wrote: 1. Like I said, his would you test for it?
2. Again, how do you test? Cameraphone. If we'd had Youtube in 30AD, all of this discussion would be moot.
"Well, evolution is a theory. It is also a fact. And facts and theories are different things, not rungs in a hierarchy of increasing certainty. Facts are the world's data. Theories are structures of ideas that explain and interpret facts. Facts don't go away when scientists debate rival theories to explain them. Einstein's theory of gravitation replaced Newton's in this century, but apples didn't suspend themselves in midair, pending the outcome. And humans evolved from ape- like ancestors whether they did so by Darwin's proposed mechanism or by some other yet to be discovered."
-Stephen Jay Gould
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RE: Ok I admit it
March 6, 2014 at 5:35 pm
(March 6, 2014 at 5:24 pm)fr0d0 Wrote: (March 6, 2014 at 5:10 pm)Simon Moon Wrote: The effects of the metaphysical action would be testable.
If theists claim their god answers prayers, they would have some effect from these answered prayers that non-prayers would not have.
1. Like I said, his would you test for it?
2. Again, how do you test?
A guy says "Lord Jesus, according do your holy word in Mark 11:24, you promised that "whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." Therefore, I will now flip a coin 10 times, and ask that you make each result heads. If you do this, the atheists will believe. You promised in the bible it would be done. Amen."
Then does the experiment.
He gets 5 heads and 5 tails.
Jesus lied.
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RE: Ok I admit it
March 6, 2014 at 5:44 pm
(This post was last modified: March 6, 2014 at 5:48 pm by fr0d0.)
(March 6, 2014 at 5:17 pm)Simon Moon Wrote: Does your god's metaphysical actions manifest in reality?
If they do, the results of the actions are testable.
If they don't, how would you demonstrate the difference between your god's metaphysical actions that don't manifest in reality, and nonexistent metaphysical actions?
The result of God's actions are as testable as all his previous actions. If he created the world, we should be able to test if it exists. It exists and we can prove that physically. How can we prove physically the metaphysical assertion: we can't.
Once you're off that false path you can explore the problem correctly. There are masses of differing options. You takes your choice.
(March 6, 2014 at 5:27 pm)Simon Moon Wrote: Depends on what is being prayed for.
If I prayed for a new Ferrari to arrive tomorrow, would the appearance and non appearance of a Ferrari both be an answer to prayer? I think they would.
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RE: Ok I admit it
March 6, 2014 at 5:53 pm
(March 6, 2014 at 5:44 pm)fr0d0 Wrote: If I prayed for a new Ferrari to arrive tomorrow, would the appearance and non appearance of a Ferrari both be an answer to prayer? I think they would.
You've been here for a long time. I've been here for like 2 months, so I feel like I should have some sort of respect for my "elder" here.
I'm also usually very reluctant to resort to swearing at/insulting people on message boards, especially over a mere difference in opinion.
With that said...that is absolutely the dumbest crock of shit I've ever read in my life. You can't possibly believe that. I really think you're lying to yourself, trolling, of just stupid...
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RE: Ok I admit it
March 6, 2014 at 6:58 pm
(This post was last modified: March 6, 2014 at 6:59 pm by fr0d0.)
Well I already have some respect for you. What I've said there is strictly logical. You presented no reasoning against, only ridicule. Can you state your case?
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RE: Ok I admit it
March 6, 2014 at 7:19 pm
(March 6, 2014 at 5:27 pm)Simon Moon Wrote:
Depends on what is being prayed for.
That's not true. The Bible has countless examples of where people prayed for all kinds of things. Some asked for the deaths of their enemies. Some asked for health, wealth and forgiveness. According to the stories they all got what they wanted. Jesus said that there are no restrictions.
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RE: Ok I admit it
March 6, 2014 at 7:39 pm
Your wyrd is incorrect.
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RE: Ok I admit it
March 6, 2014 at 7:45 pm
(March 6, 2014 at 7:39 pm)fr0d0 Wrote: Your wyrd is incorrect.
Got proof?
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RE: Ok I admit it
March 6, 2014 at 7:53 pm
(This post was last modified: March 6, 2014 at 7:54 pm by fr0d0.)
Prayer fails for
• Disobedience - Deuteronomy 1:45; 1 Samuel 14:37
• Secret Sin - Psalm 66:18
• Indifference - Proverbs 1:28
• Neglect of mercy - Proverbs 21:13
• Despising the Law - Proverbs 28:9
• Bloodguiltiness - Isaiah 1:15
• Iniquity - Isaiah 59:2; Micah 3:4
• Stubbornness - Zechariah 7:13
• Instability or Doubt - James 1:6-7
• Self-indulgence - James 4:3
1 John 5:14
This is the confidence we have in approaching God: that if we ask anything according to his will, he hears us.
Wider question: how do you know what's Gods will?
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