War Crimes

[Autumnlicious]

Shit happens in war.

Cold, hard but true.

Dislike. Bad things always happen. This video is evidence that American troops are engaging in illegal acts and further drives the debate towards full disclosure.

[leo-rcc]

I still don't see the big deal. If this kind of thing happens systematically I'd be inclined to have a good look at the rules of engagement book, but until then I much prefer some collateral damage then sending in troops on the ground that can be ambushed or blown up by improvised explosive devices.

And forget about the notion that in former wars civillians only died in crossfire. They have been targeted by all sides (including the UK) in pretty much every war.

[Autumnlicious]

I still don't see the big deal. If this kind of thing happens systematically I'd be inclined to have a good look at the rules of engagement book, but until then I much prefer some collateral damage then sending in troops on the ground that can be ambushed or blown up by improvised explosive devices.

And forget about the notion that in former wars civillians only died in crossfire. They have been targeted by all sides (including the UK) in pretty much every war.

Please watch the footage before making an ass of yourself. I am being kind by assuming you have not watched the video footage instead of being an idiot.

[leo-rcc]

I still don't see the big deal. If this kind of thing happens systematically I'd be inclined to have a good look at the rules of engagement book, but until then I much prefer some collateral damage then sending in troops on the ground that can be ambushed or blown up by improvised explosive devices.

And forget about the notion that in former wars civillians only died in crossfire. They have been targeted by all sides (including the UK) in pretty much every war.

Please watch the footage before making an ass of yourself. I am being kind by assuming you have not watched the video footage instead of being an idiot.

I have seen the footage and have seen others as well, that still doesn't alter my position.

[Minimalist]

Shit happens in war.

Cold, hard but true.

Which is why war is a thing to be avoided. Not eagerly grasped as Bush did like a four year old who finds daddy's gun.

[RedFish]

@ Leo=rcc... Try putting yourself in the position of the people on the ground. Or someone you Love.
How about we just nuke the fkn lot of em? ''Shit happens'' right? How much BLOOD have you seen in your life Leo? How much pain and suffering have you personally witnessed, how many screams and moans of distress have kept you awake at night?...And how much have you seen on tee-fkn-vee? And in computer games? Your attitude screams of lack of experience of real life. Ditto compassion.
The west has the most high-tec, well equipped forces in the world. Most of their foes these days seem to be armed with left-overs from previous conflicts, which they supplement using whatever means they can. As you would in their position. We have names such as 'cluster-bomb' and 'area denial weapon' to denote weapons far more destructive and random in their effects than an IED. <Only called such as it has not been specifically manufactured for the purpose, as ours have.
In an urban conflict it is only sensible to engage your enemy, not civilians, who have family and friends who may just decide to become your enemy based on what they have just witnessed. You cannot win a war that way. That is why the action was 'stupid'. The sentiments already expressed on here should indicate how bad feeling has been generated by this act, how much greater will that become the closer to the 'incident' you are?
War is hell, soldiers should be for the defence/maintenance and construction of a country, not the furtherance of some ******s' political ambitions.

[Dotard]

The video did not contain evidence American troops are engaging in illegal acts.

It contains evidence they 'fuckd up'. I watched that video a couple few times. It DID appear as if a group of armed men were roaming and setting up an ambush. Do not forget the pilot and gunners did not have those little arrows on the screen identifying who was who and what they were carrying.

The one part showing a dude peeking around a corner, that may have been a big ass tele-lens on a camera, but from my view, and that of those in the gunship, it looked like an RPG.

That 'ambulance' had nothing to identify it as an ambulance. It appeared to be just a vehicle rolling up to evacuate militant troops.

Armchair quarter-backing is what you all are doing.

The chopper was there responding to a call from troops reporting taking small arms fire. They roll up and see what appears to be a crowd with guns and a rocket launcher. What the fuck did you expect them to do?

And really, bullets are flying, people are dying and some idiot rolls up into the firing line in a van with children. That was just plain stupid.

---

And because we state the cold fact "Shit Happens" DOES NOT make us insensitive or lacking compasion. It was a very very sad turn of affairs. My heart goes out to the families and loved ones. But that does not change the fact this was war.

If you want to organize a crying session or a pity party that's fine, I'll participate and still maintain the soldiers involved acted within the rules of engagement and in protection of the troops taking fire.

[leo-rcc]

@ Leo=rcc... Try putting yourself in the position of the people on the ground. Or someone you Love.
How about we just nuke the fkn lot of em? ''Shit happens'' right? How much BLOOD have you seen in your life Leo? How much pain and suffering have you personally witnessed, how many screams and moans of distress have kept you awake at night?...And how much have you seen on tee-fkn-vee? And in computer games? Your attitude screams of lack of experience of real life. Ditto compassion.

It's a great rant, but what does that have anything to do with what is being discussed here?

[Shell B]

Calling it like it is, is not heartless. Realizing that war is war and not an amusement park, is not heartless. Those of us who are not involved often see things from a different perspective than those who are actually there. It is really easy for us to pound our fists and say "Civilians shouldn't die!" However, I wonder how many of us would accidentally hit one or two civilians and then regret it for the rest of our lives, if we were placed in the shitstorm that is "the war."

Basically what I am saying is that civilians die in wars. They always have. It's horrible. It's saddening. However, it is not due to the negligence of a couple of soldiers. It is due to the very nature of war. And let us not forget that American and British civilians have been targeted in the Middle East. I know that doesn't help some people's agendas, but it's the truth. I don't think that the men and children in this videos were targeted as civilians. They were targeted as insurgents. That doesn't change the sad fact that they were civilians, but it does change how these men perceived them.

Go ahead and protest the war. Minimalist said it best. "War is something that should be avoided." I agree with that statement. I don't think that war is a reason to go apeshit about what the soldiers do for a job, however.

[Tiberius]

Ok, people seem to be ignoring another issue here. Yes, civilians get killed in war. Yes, war should be the absolute last course of action. Yes, there will be instances where things go wrong and innocent people are targeted as the enemy.

The actions of the people in the film can possibly be excused if you hold the technology and actual war accountable instead. However, the actions of the US government by denying that this took place, and the spreading of the lie that the chopper was fired upon first should be highlighted. Once the facts came out, and Reuters announced that their journalists had been killed in this firefight, a full investigation should have taken place. Reuters asked for the chopper video 2 years ago as part of the freedom of information act, and it was denied. Why? Possibly because it shows that the US government lied about what happened, that the chopper was not "fired upon", and that this action was not done in self-defense.

Why do governments have such problems with admitting to errors? Why can't they apologise for their mistakes?