Heaven and The Problem of Evil

[Coffee Jesus]

Matthew 5:17-19 KJV

Jesus says,
"Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

I addressed this a long time ago, so I'll just copy and paste what i wrote in another thread.

The key Phrase being "till all is fulfilled" meaning the law will pass away at some point. If People were meant to live under the law than it would have been establsihed from the beginning, The law didn't exist until Moses.

Wow you're selective.

"For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments

[Huggy Bear]

The point of my OP is that any imagining of heaven that involves no sin completely invalidates problem-of-evil apologetics. You have not been addressing that or refuting it.

I have addressed it. If sin is unbelief then how can you disbelieve God if your in heaven? You cannot enter heaven with sin, you must first be cleansed of sin through Christ, receive his spirit then it is impossible for you to sin, and this is in regard to right now on earth, heaven has nothing to do with it.

1 John 3:9
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

The part where the Bible literally says that "a serpent tempted Eve to eat some fruit" actually means "the serpent who wasn't a serpent had sex with Eve... and talked about fruit and knowledge, or something".

I'm really not seeing that jump anywhere in the stuff you quoted.

If the serpent was a snake, would it make sense for God to curse him to crawl on his belly?

If Cain was Adams son, why isn't he recorded in his genealogy?

1 John 3:12
Not as Cain, who was of that wicked one, and slew his brother. And wherefore slew he him? Because his own works were evil, and his brother's righteous.

the word "knowledge" in the Bible also has a sexual meaning. e.g carnal knowledge.

Genesis 4:25
And Adam knew his wife again; and she bare a son

If sex wasn't the cause, why was it important that Jesus be born of a virgin?

That's the whole stated point of this thread. Either:

• God cannot create a realm without suffering (ergo, heaven doesn't exist as commonly described), or
  
• God created suffering because he wanted suffering.
  

That's it. There's no magical third option; just people picking the second option and coming up with unstated reasons for why God has to allow suffering, but he doesn't have to, but he chooses to, because he loves us.

Again, this was addressed. there was no suffering in Eden, death didn't exist. Suffering came through sin and the hybridization of the human race through the serpent. Observe nature, Hybreeding always brings death, which is why hybrids typically end up sterile. Also Lucifer wasn't the only one that rebelled, A third of the angels rebelled with him. In other words sin started in heaven.

1 Samuel 15:23
For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry. Because thou hast rejected the word of the Lord, he hath also rejected thee from being king.

---

I addressed this a long time ago, so I'll just copy and paste what i wrote in another thread.

Wow you're selective.

"For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments

Not selective at all, read it how it is written. he put in the caveat "till all be fulfilled". The law did not exist until Moses. If God had intended us to live under the law, he would had given the law at the beginning.

[Rampant.A.I.]

The point of my OP is that any imagining of heaven that involves no sin completely invalidates problem-of-evil apologetics. You have not been addressing that or refuting it.

I have addressed it. If sin is unbelief then how can you disbelieve God if your in heaven? You cannot enter heaven with sin, you must first be cleansed of sin through Christ, receive his spirit then it is impossible for you to sin, and this is in regard to right now on earth, heaven has nothing to do with it.

1 John 3:9
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

The part where the Bible literally says that "a serpent tempted Eve to eat some fruit" actually means "the serpent who wasn't a serpent had sex with Eve... and talked about fruit and knowledge, or something".

I'm really not seeing that jump anywhere in the stuff you quoted.

If the serpent was a snake, would it make sense for God to curse him to crawl on his belly?

If Cain was Adams son, why isn't he recorded in his genealogy?

1 John 3:12
Not as Cain, who was of that wicked one, and slew his brother. And wherefore slew he him? Because his own works were evil, and his brother's righteous.

the word "knowledge" in the Bible also has a sexual meaning. e.g carnal knowledge.

Genesis 4:25
And Adam knew his wife again; and she bare a son

If sex wasn't the cause, why was it important that Jesus be born of a virgin?

That's the whole stated point of this thread. Either:

• God cannot create a realm without suffering (ergo, heaven doesn't exist as commonly described), or
  
• God created suffering because he wanted suffering.
  

That's it. There's no magical third option; just people picking the second option and coming up with unstated reasons for why God has to allow suffering, but he doesn't have to, but he chooses to, because he loves us.

Again, this was addressed. there was no suffering in Eden, death didn't exist. Suffering came through sin and the hybridization of the human race through the serpent. Observe nature, Hybreeding always brings death, which is why hybrids typically end up sterile. Also Lucifer wasn't the only one that rebelled, A third of the angels rebelled with him. In other words sin started in heaven.

1 Samuel 15:23
For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry. Because thou hast rejected the word of the Lord, he hath also rejected thee from being king.

[Coffee Jesus]

Wow you're selective.

"For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments

Not selective at all, read it how it is written. he put in the caveat "till all be fulfilled". The law did not exist until Moses. If God had intended us to live under the law, he would had given the law at the beginning.

Okay mister I know more about God's will than Jesus did.
Jesus is not talking about how long they;ve applied, but how long they continue to apply. He says that not one jot or tittle shall pass fromt he law "until heaven and earth pass... till all be fulfilled".

[RobbyPants]

The point of my OP is that any imagining of heaven that involves no sin completely invalidates problem-of-evil apologetics. You have not been addressing that or refuting it.

I have addressed it. If sin is unbelief then how can you disbelieve God if your in heaven? You cannot enter heaven with sin, you must first be cleansed of sin through Christ, receive his spirit then it is impossible for you to sin, and this is in regard to right now on earth, heaven has nothing to do with it.

No, you haven't. It's a nonsequitur.

That's the whole stated point of this thread. Either:

• God cannot create a realm without suffering (ergo, heaven doesn't exist as commonly described), or
  
• God created suffering because he wanted suffering.
  

That's it. There's no magical third option; just people picking the second option and coming up with unstated reasons for why God has to allow suffering, but he doesn't have to, but he chooses to, because he loves us.

Again, this was addressed. there was no suffering in Eden, death didn't exist. Suffering came through sin and the hybridization of the human race through the serpent. Observe nature, Hybreeding always brings death, which is why hybrids typically end up sterile. Also Lucifer wasn't the only one that rebelled, A third of the angels rebelled with him. In other words sin started in heaven.

Again, you didn't address what I said and answered with a nonsequitur. Is Almighty God capable of creating a realm with no sin and suffering where at no point there will be no sin and suffering in the future? Answer that question yes or no.

Yes: So, God is capable of making a perfect realm where we don't sin, and we won't sin down the line. This is what most people consider heaven. If God can make that place, why didn't he make it in the first place? Once we get to that point in time (where there will be no sin in the future), then all discussions of sin and sin-caused suffering are useless and moot. If that realm can exist, then we could be in it now, but we aren't because God wants suffering.

No: So, there will always be sin sometime down the road, which means heaven is not permanent and you believe in a heaven vastly different than most Christians.


So Huggy, which is it? Yes or no? Can almighty God create a realm that has no sin and won't have sin in the future?

[Huggy Bear]

Not selective at all, read it how it is written. he put in the caveat "till all be fulfilled". The law did not exist until Moses. If God had intended us to live under the law, he would had given the law at the beginning.

Okay mister I know more about God's will than Jesus did.
Jesus is not talking about how long they;ve applied, but how long they continue to apply. He says that not one jot or tittle shall pass fromt he law "until heaven and earth pass... till all be fulfilled".

Actually I'm quoting Paul:

Galatians 3 (KJV)

19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.
20 Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one.
21 Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.
22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

---

Yes: So, God is capable of making a perfect realm where we don't sin, and we won't sin down the line. This is what most people consider heaven. If God can make that place, why didn't he make it in the first place? Once we get to that point in time (where there will be no sin in the future), then all discussions of sin and sin-caused suffering are useless and moot. If that realm can exist, then we could be in it now, but we aren't because God wants suffering.

No: So, there will always be sin sometime down the road, which means heaven is not permanent and you believe in a heaven vastly different than most Christians.


So Huggy, which is it? Yes or no? Can almighty God create a realm that has no sin and won't have sin in the future?

How did I not make myself clear? if an yes or no answer is what you want the the answer to "Can almighty God create a realm that has no sin and won't have sin in the future?" is yes. God wanting suffering would only be true if he made Eve sin.

[Neo-Scholastic]

...if I read the descriptions of Martians and Martian culture from the perspective of alchemy, astrology and Christian mystic perspective after joining the modern illuminati and pledging myself to the order of the Rosy Cross I will understand better, and the following passage about the People from Jupiter...

That's actually rather clever, although you forgot to mention Freemasons and the Knights Templar.

So to repeat the original question you completely ignored, In your opinion, is Swedenborg's description of Martians...or Jupiterians and Jupiterian communication as accurate as his description of Heaven, or less accurate?

I don't ignore really, I just don't have as much time as I would like to make appropriate responses.

Swedenborg relates his visionary experiences using the same symbolic methodology found in his theological works like Arcana Coelestia. In those texts, various nations of the ancient word serve as representatives of spiritual qualities. For example, Egypt and Egyptians correspond to the love of natural sciences. Amorites and Canaanites refer to those who love evil, etc. By using alchemical terms widely understood by his contemporaries, he was able to communicate the character of various spirits he encountered in the spiritual world. Likewise in other texts, he explains the character of earthly spirits in the anatomical terms of a Microcosm.

Not a good read for the literally minded, but if you try reading more poetically, Swedenborg is really very insightful. Its similar to those who take Revelation literally; it's not a very fruitful approach.

[Coffee Jesus]

How did I not make myself clear? if an yes or no answer is what you want the the answer to "Can almighty God create a realm that has no sin and won't have sin in the future?" is yes. God wanting suffering would only be true if he made Eve sin.

He didn't make them eat from it, but he did make the tree of knowledge and make it easily accessible.

[Huggy Bear]

make them eat from it, but he did make the tree of knowledge and make it easily accessible.

I clearly stated that it wasn't a tree, the original sin was sexual. That is what opened their eyes to realize they were naked. The Bible doesn't get explicit so it uses "tree" as symbology. The fruit of a tree are the reproductive organs, make sense?

I also stated that the serpent was not a snake. Otherwise it would make no sense for God to curse the serpent to crawl on his belly if he is already crawling on his belly.

Genesis 3
14 And the Lord God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:

[RobbyPants]

Huggy, can Almighty God create a realm that has no sin and suffering now and will never in the future?