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Is there free will in Heaven?
#1
Is there free will in Heaven?
Can I choose to disobey God once I am in Heaven?

Isn't that the same as sin? Opposition to the will of God.

Is there sin in Heaven?

I don't believe that the idea of Heaven and Hell makes sense. Most notably regarding the problem of choice and identity.

If you no longer have the option to choose things that are wrong, to make mistakes, or to challenge/disobey God, are you even the same person?

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#2
RE: Is there free will in Heaven?
(March 25, 2021 at 2:39 pm)Five Wrote: Can I choose to disobey God once I am in Heaven?
We're told that at least one being managed it, and took a third of the population down with him.

Quote:Isn't that the same as sin? Opposition to the will of God.
Yes.  You might even call it the archetypal mold.

Quote:Is there sin in Heaven?
At least once...maybe more, depending on how you count it.  There are alot of angels in the lesser and greater keys, as it were.

Quote:I don't believe that the idea of Heaven and Hell makes sense. Most notably regarding the problem of choice and identity.

If you no longer have the option to choose things that are wrong, to make mistakes, or to challenge/disobey God, are you even the same person?

Well, let's unpack that.  The idea of heaven and hell may make sense even if a person wakes up a different person every day.  On monday, the person they wake up to be may be deserving of hell.  Tuesday, a saint.  It seems like...if you have a choice, when you have a choice......then that choice matters.   

Separate this hypothetical different person into the more familiar set of all other persons, who are different from you.  Does it seem strange or unfair....or unbelievable, even.... that different persons, different than you, who make different choices...may be more or less deserving of heaven or hell (however defined) based on those choices?
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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#3
RE: Is there free will in Heaven?
(March 25, 2021 at 3:03 pm)The Grand Nudger Wrote:
(March 25, 2021 at 2:39 pm)Five Wrote: Can I choose to disobey God once I am in Heaven?
We're told that at least one being managed it, and took a third of the population down with him.

And yet, many contend that angels have no free will.
[Image: Fenrir-sign.jpg]
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#4
RE: Is there free will in Heaven?
Others contend that the myth is internally coherent. Isn't that fun!. Wink

Still...if it's a thing that a person shouts to strangers on a public board - well. It might be worth looking at what we find compelling about the idea...and why this or that myth isn't one of those things.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
Reply
#5
RE: Is there free will in Heaven?
We haven’t yet determined if there is free will on Earth.

Boru
‘Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.’ Ralph Waldo Emerson
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#6
RE: Is there free will in Heaven?
Well, as we all know, Heaven is a place where nothing ever happens:



So what would the point of free will even be
Comparing the Universal Oneness of All Life to Yo Mama since 2010.

[Image: harmlesskitchen.png]

I was born with the gift of laughter and a sense the world is mad.
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#7
RE: Is there free will in Heaven?
Are there unicorns in my spotchka?

Magic 8 ball responds
tlhilHa'ghach
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#8
RE: Is there free will in Heaven?
Drop "Free" in "Free Will" and then it will make sense.
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself — and you are the easiest person to fool." - Richard P. Feynman
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#9
RE: Is there free will in Heaven?
(March 25, 2021 at 3:39 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: We haven’t yet determined if there is free will on Earth.

Boru

John Calvin simplified things -- God chooses some infants for Heaven, the Elect, other infants, the Reprobate, he consigns to eternal Hell.
And without delay Peter went quickly out of the synagogue (assembly) and went unto the house of Marcellus, where Simon lodged: and much people followed him...And Peter turned unto the people that followed him and said: Ye shall now see a great and marvellous wonder. And Peter seeing a great dog bound with a strong chain, went to him and loosed him, and when he was loosed the dog received a man's voice and said unto Peter: What dost thou bid me to do, thou servant of the unspeakable and living God? Peter said unto him: Go in and say unto Simon in the midst of his company: Peter saith unto thee, Come forth abroad, for thy sake am I come to Rome, thou wicked one and deceiver of simple souls. And immediately the dog ran and entered in, and rushed into the midst of them that were with Simon, and lifted up his forefeet and in a loud voice said: Thou Simon, Peter the servant of Christ who standeth at the door saith unto thee: Come forth abroad, for thy sake am I come to Rome, thou most wicked one and deceiver of simple souls. And when Simon heard it, and beheld the incredible sight, he lost the words wherewith he was deceiving them that stood by, and all of them were amazed. (The Acts of Peter, 9)
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#10
RE: Is there free will in Heaven?
(March 25, 2021 at 2:39 pm)Five Wrote: Can I choose to disobey God once I am in Heaven?

Isn't that the same as sin? Opposition to the will of God.

Is there sin in Heaven?

I don't believe that the idea of Heaven and Hell makes sense. Most notably regarding the problem of choice and identity.

If you no longer have the option to choose things that are wrong, to make mistakes, or to challenge/disobey God, are you even the same person?

No free will in Heaven. 
We all pray for God will be done, as his will is righteous and will free from righteousness is evil.
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