Science was once a child of the church.

[mickiel]

I disagree, science left because it wanted what the church had; power, influence, position in the public, respect and admiration.

You continue to miss my point. I am starting to feel like you're doing it on purpose.

Also I agree that Atheist have every right to like science and use it in their arguments; I use science in my arguments for God being real everyday.

So....what was the point if your original post then?

To show that science once had a good history with religion, and it lasted a long time. To get into that history, but I have been sidetracked a bit, being sure I respond to everyone, according to the rules.

[Losty]

I disagree, science left because it wanted what the church had; power, influence, position in the public, respect and admiration.

Also I agree that Atheist have every right to like science and use it in their arguments; I use science in my arguments for God being real everyday.

Dude, science, philosophy, etc were around LONG before Christianity.

Much of our knowledge is built upon the teachings of the Greeks, much of which was lost during the Dark Ages - that 800 years when the church controlled Europe and humanity there did not progress.

I love you Beccs. Your quoting confuses the hell out of me lol :p

[mickiel]

Thank you.

[Cinjin]

There is a culture in the Amazon even today that is completely atheistic. The Pirahã people know of no god and even rejected the idea of Jesus when they found out that the missionaries had never heard or seen him. This is proof positive that atheism exists separate from theism, but even on a much greater scale, there are millions of atheists who have never believed in any god at any time in their life. Regardless of whether or not they heard of your god, they made the choice to reject theism often solely on the premise of my original point: lack of knowledge because of lack of evidence.

I agree with you, but disagree with it being " Millions", no, not on that scale, but small pockets like those Amazon Piraha.

You can disagree, but you have no evidence for your position. You're basically saying that those millions of atheists would only be atheists as long as there were theists walking around on the planet. That's just ridiculous, and I have proven that with real evidence.

[Rampant.A.I.]

Again I ask, so what?

Good question, deserving of a better answer. History is the unfolding of reality that we know. There was no war between religion and science, the fight was between the church and science; know that history. The Roman Catholic church to be exact; and it once ruled over science.

And the real reason science left the church, was because THEY wanted to speak for God, instead of the Bishops! THEY wanted to give the answers, and receive the admiration of the people.

The bishops were issuing death warrants... So...

And science makes no claims about religion. Individual scientists may, but science itself deals in empirical evidence, not doctrine and dogma.

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I disagree, but I would like to hear what evidence you have for this claim.

You are the evidence; explain to me why Atheism would exist, if Theism did not?

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:facepalm:

Assertions without evidence. The hallmark of all good religious whipping boys.

You have made a serious error, I am not religious.

Because atheistic beliefs predate deistic and theistic beliefs.

Animism, for example, has nothing to do with deities.

[mickiel]

And science makes no claims about religion. Individual scientists may, but science itself deals in empirical evidence, not doctrine and dogma.

Science did not always do that, it once was a search for God. Or for a divine presence.

[Losty]

You continue to miss my point. I am starting to feel like you're doing it on purpose.


So....what was the point if your original post then?

To show that science once had a good history with religion, and it lasted a long time. To get into that history, but I have been sidetracked a bit, being sure I respond to everyone, according to the rules.

Oh ok cool. I would just like to take this time to refer to my original comment in this thread. Science once had a good history with religion, and science once had a good history with flat earth theory.

I don't believe science has a very good relationship with either anymore.

[Rampant.A.I.]

And science makes no claims about religion. Individual scientists may, but science itself deals in empirical evidence, not doctrine and dogma.

Science did not always do that, it once was a search for God. Or for a divine presence.

Where are you getting your info?

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_science

http://www.historytoday.com/richard-toml...nce-part-i

[Ravenshire]

Atheism does not predate Theism, because it came from it. Explain to me how there could be an Atheist, without there first being a Theist?

The term "atheism" may not predate theism (duh), But, the lack of belief in gods certainly predates any beliefs in any gods.

[mickiel]

To show that science once had a good history with religion, and it lasted a long time. To get into that history, but I have been sidetracked a bit, being sure I respond to everyone, according to the rules.

Oh ok cool. I would just like to take this time to refer to my original comment in this thread. Science once had a good history with religion, and science once had a good history with flat earth theory.

I don't believe science has a very good relationship with either anymore.

As a whole, no, I don't think so. But they used to be a family. Now, its a family war, which gives more historical emotion to the battle.