what are we supposed to say again when christians ask us where we get our morality?

[naimless]

Empathy, sense of fairness, desire to live in a society that is relatively fair, just, and safe....yeah, what's the attraction of those things if evildoers don't get punished in the afterlife, eh?

Just because you live with that intention in society, it does not mean that society will reward you with the same attributes, unless you believe in karma. Why treat others fairly if you are unfairly treated?

So what prevents one from seeking revenge against said rapist?

Ethical considerations come to mind.

Such as...

[GrandizerII]

I can't see the motivation as an atheist to take a moral high ground, assuming there was no potential earthly punishment beyond my control and nothing existed after earth.

It's possible this could be a personal issue of yours, and not much to do with atheism.

---

I know a victim of rape whose rapist has told her God already forgave him, and it's time she "got over it" because he got over it years ago.

So what prevents one from seeking revenge against said rapist?

Personality, past experiences, emotional support from others, realizing that revenge could be carried out in better ways or that revenge isn't worth it, etc.

[Rampant.A.I.]

I know a victim of rape whose rapist has told her God already forgave him, and it's time she "got over it" because he got over it years ago.

So what prevents one from seeking revenge against said rapist?

I find it interesting that you side step any questions I direct back at you by giving personal details that your hypotheticals are true, and have already been considered, by someone you claim to believe does not have a moral framework, and yet you're unable to answer such simple questions yourself.

---

So what prevents one from seeking revenge against said rapist?

Ethical considerations come to mind. Well, they come to my mind, but they seem to consistently fail to come to yours.

Indeed. Say for instance, this amoral outsider lacking belief in divine justice were able to trick the believer in divine justice and forgiveness by confession, say, recording a statement of guilt.

Would it then be more objectively moral to use the record of said statement as a place marker for the conscience the good Christian rapist admittedly lacks? Or would it be more moral for a hypothetical lawgiver to sacrifice their own life to atone for the actions of an amoral rapist?

You're proposing alternatives that just don't make rational sense.

What possible murder scenario can you devise, as a hypothetical, that would atone for years of rape by an authority figure?

What quick and easy death could compare to being sexually abused, over and over, for several years? Why would such an alternative even be on the table?

[naimless]

I find it interesting that you side step any questions I direct back at you

If I don't reply to all of your post it is because you have either asked a question that I have already answered, assumed something incorrectly about me, or stated something that I consider to be rhetorical and that I do not need to bother challenging. I replied initially to you out of kindness because you initiated a response to my post and it seemed like you misunderstood that I was not aware of church authorities who rape/murder etc. and use positions/beliefs to manipulate the masses.

I don't actually want to reply to you at all. I only did so because you initially replied to me and are misunderstanding me. I do not wish to miscommunicate any further.

[GrandizerII]

I find it interesting that you side step any questions I direct back at you

If I don't reply to all of your post it is because you have either asked a question that I have already answered, assumed something incorrectly about me, or stated something that I consider to be rhetorical and that I do not need to bother challenging. I replied initially to you out of kindness because you initiated a response to my post and it seemed like you misunderstood that I was not aware of church authorities who rape/murder etc. and use positions/beliefs to manipulate the masses.

I don't actually want to reply to you at all. I only did so because you initially replied to me and are misunderstanding me. I do not wish to miscommunicate any further.

You mean your argument is not just rhetoric?

[naimless]

No, I am sincere. Many people have learnt moral lessons through religious influence. When one takes away religion entirely, it can be hard to see the logic of keeping any subsequent morality. The only real atheistic reason for understanding or forgiveness that I can see, is if everything is physical and pre-determined anyway... but then that also negates my own responsibility or free will and so everything I do is essentially inconsequential, including murder.

[IAmTheeWallrus]

I'd leave it alone because it's a dry hole.
But if I had a couple hours to waste and my blood pressure was under control I'd start by asking where they get theirs, and then pray that they say the bible.
After that it gets very boring and ridiculous.

[GrandizerII]

No, I am sincere. Many people have learnt moral lessons through religious influence. When one takes away religion entirely, it can be hard to see the logic of keeping any subsequent morality. The only real atheistic reason for understanding or forgiveness that I can see, is if everything is physical and pre-determined anyway... but then that also negates my own responsibility or free will and so everything I do is essentially inconsequential, including murder.

If most of are predetermined to have morals and be morally accountable for the things we say and do, then this is a problem how?

Determinism does not preclude responsibility if responsibility itself can also be predetermined.

Also, not sure if you've read the exchange between me and Stantler, but I show that even theists have to follow their own individual (and societal) moral rules due to a lack of access to a source of objective morality.

[Mister Agenda]

Empathy, sense of fairness, desire to live in a society that is relatively fair, just, and safe....yeah, what's the attraction of those things if evildoers don't get punished in the afterlife, eh?

Just because you live with that intention in society, it does not mean that society will reward you with the same attributes, unless you believe in karma. Why treat others fairly if you are unfairly treated?

Ethical considerations come to mind.

Such as...

Tired of conversing with someone who is either ethically retarded or pretending to be: which would be pretty ethically retarded in itself. JAQ off on someone else.

[Rampant.A.I.]

I find it interesting that you side step any questions I direct back at you

If I don't reply to all of your post it is because you have either asked a question that I have already answered,

You haven't once answered where you get your morality from when it doesn't align with the biblical God.

assumed something incorrectly about me,

Oh, you poor baby! Someone assumed something about you? How dare anyone treat you the same as you treat them!

or stated something that I consider to be rhetorical and that I do not need to bother challenging.

So, no real response?

I replied initially to you out of kindness

Right. Coming to a forum to troll by insinuation of immorality, and supporting your claim is "kindness"

because you initiated a response to my post and it seemed like you misunderstood

Your claims aren't special and unique snowflakes. Just the same old rehashed crap, not unlike ontological arguments.

that I was not aware of church authorities who rape/murder etc. and use positions/beliefs to manipulate the masses.

Your bible does not prohibit child molestation or rape. If you find either immoral, you get your morality from another source, and have defeated your own "argument"

I don't actually want to reply to you at all.

Riiiight.

I only did so because you initially replied to me and are misunderstanding me. I do not wish to miscommunicate any further.

Because you can't support your argument, and are doing what every religious person does when they can't win an argument: move the goal posts, shift gears, or refuse to continue.