Let's answer CARM's Questions for Atheists

[Brian37]

Damn, going to have to get back to this one, gotta take my mom to the doctor for a checkup. I didn't realize how long it was.

[Dolorian]

Damn, going to have to get back to this one, gotta take my mom to the doctor for a checkup. I didn't realize how long it was.

Sure thing, take your time

[Clueless Morgan]

this is really long and I don't feel like wirtting in hide tags for every single answer, so I'm just going to hide the whole thing:

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1. How would you define atheism?

Depends on what kind of atheism you’re talking about. It can be defined as the default or null position (“I have insufficient evidence or reason to accept the positive claim that any gods exist” <-- I’m this kind of atheist), or it can be defined as the positive claim that no gods exist. It’s entirely dependant on the person assuming the title atheist. I don’t presume to define atheism for anyone but myself.

2. Do you act according to what you believe (there is no God) in or what you don't believe in (lack belief in God)?

If you remove the unnecessary “there is a god” or “lack of belief in god” modifiers which slant this question terribly, I could be accurately described as acting on positive and negative beliefs; whether or not I think there is a god is not a motivating factor for my actions in life. I don’t go around thinking to myself “I believe there is no god, how does this inform my actions while grocery shopping?” or “I lack a belief in god, how can I use this to decide what I want for lunch?”

This is a stupid question.

3. Do you think it is inconsistent for someone who "lacks belief" in God to work against God's existence by attempting to show that God doesn't exist?

This question doesn’t make any sense because a god’s existence hasn’t been established such that a person who “lacks a belief” in any gods would be definitively working against any god’s existence. Demonstrate that a god (any god) exists and then this question could be answered as written.

This question is also shifting the burden of proof. It’s not up to the atheist to demonstrate that gods do not exist; it’s up to the theist to demonstrate that they do exist.

I don’t, however, think that it is inconsistent for a person who “lacks belief” in a god to demonstrate the fallacies and logical inconsistencies in a theists arguments. You could have a positive belief in some other god and do this to other religions’ theistic claims.

4. How sure are you that your atheism properly represents reality?

No gods have ever been in evidence, or demonstrated to be responsible for phenomena of any kind, so my atheism (lack of belief in any god claim) currently maps to reality.

5. How sure are you that your atheism is correct?

See answer to #4.

6. How would you define what truth is?

That which is factually correct and comports with reality, regardless of personal subjectivity, biases or interpretations. The more humans learn about the universe and can demonstrate to be factual and objectively accurate, the closer to “truth” we can get.

7. Why do you believe your atheism is a justifiable position to hold?

See answer to #4.

8. Are you a materialist or a physicalist or what?

Or what.

9. Do you affirm or deny that atheism is a worldview? Why or why not?

Atheism is the non-acceptance or rejection of god claims, and as such it is not a worldview or a philosophy. Theism is also not a worldview, it is merely the acceptance of theistic claims.

10. Not all atheists are antagonistic to Christianity but for those of you who are, why the antagonism?

Perhaps it has to do with antagonism and condescension atheists get from many Christians who routinely straw man atheists, tell atheists that they’re going to go to hell, or that atheists secretly know God exists but publicly reject him because they love their sin, or other such non-sense.

Add to this that some Christians perpetrate terrible harm upon each other (indoctrination of young children before they known enough to make up their minds on their own, tell each other that masturbation is a sin, that you can be sent to hell for what amounts to thought crimes, etc.), as well as terrible harm on others (The Catholic church in Africa, Mormons pushing for Prop 8, the whole pedophile priest thing, bombing abortion clinics, starting wars using their religion as justification, etc.)

11. If you were at one time a believer in the Christian God, what caused you to deny his existence?

This question makes the unjustified assumption that the Chrsitian God exists. No one has demonstrated that there is a god to deny, let alone that that god is the Christian God.

This question also assumes that all atheists are strong atheists – that they positively believe there is no god – so it’s also straw manning many atheists.

A less loaded question would have been worded “If you were at one time a believer in the Christian God, what caused you to stop believing?”

12. Do you believe the world would be better off without religion?

I think it could very well be a wash – people will find other nonsense to fill the void religion leaves behind (New-agey, crystal-power, tarot-reading, astrology-chart-constructing, numerology-calculating, guru-consulting, Ouiji-board-divining, paranormal-believing, conspiracy-theorist type crap). But getting rid of religion wouldn’t be a bad thing, IMO, especially if this is accompanied by increases in science education and reasonability of people. But seeing as how these aren’t givens, I stand by the opinion that it could very well be a wash.

13. Do you believe the world would be better off without Christianity?

Probably.

14. Do you believe that faith in a God or gods is a mental disorder?

No.

15. Must God be known through the scientific method?

If a god isn’t demonstrated through the scientific method, how can you assert that a god exists? Especially if that god is an interventionalist: it intervenes or interacts with our reality by answering prayers, performing miracles, etc.

If we’re talking about a deistic god, I doubt that that god could be demonstrated by the scientific method, but claiming that a deistic god is responsible for the reality we experience is a god of the gaps argument. Just like you can’t demonstrate that the deistic god doesn’t exist, you can’t demonstrate that it does, either. Argument from ignorance.

If we’re talking about a completely immaterial god, devoid of physical properties that doesn’t interact with this reality, that god would probably not be scientifically detectable, which raises the question of how the theist even knows about it to begin with. If it somehow instilled humanity with foreknowledge of its existence, that would qualify as interacting with this reality and, thus, could be scientifically studied.

16. If you answered yes to the previous question, then how do you avoid a category mistake by requiring material evidence for an immaterial God?

Not all proposed gods are immaterial – the questioner is, again, assuming their special god is the only possible one in existence and has failed to provide reason, evidence or a demonstration that no other possible gods exist.

17. Do we have any purpose as human beings?

Sure.

18. If we do have purpose, can you as an atheist please explain how that purpose is determined?

The evolutionary purpose for any life form, not just human beings, is to live long enough to produce offspring that will survive to reproductive age and produce offspring that will survive to reproductive age and produce offspring that will survive to reproductive age and produce offspring that will survive to reproductive age, etc, etc, etc…

Any purpose humans give themselves above and beyond this evolutionary purpose for life is entirely self-generated and determined by the individual.

19. Where does morality come from?

Morality is a social construct created by animals that live in social groups, and is thus defined by each social group.

20. Are there moral absolutes?

No.

21. If there are moral absolutes, could you list a few of them?

N/A

22. Do you believe there is such a thing as evil? If so, what is it?

I believe there are things which are maximally harmful, to individuals, groups, and societies for which the word “evil” would be a reasonable descriptive word.

23. If you believe that the God of the Old Testament is morally bad, by what standard do you judge that he is bad?

By the standards of my society.

(Also, dangerously close to the Euthyphro dilemma, here. Tread carefully, questioner.)

24. What would it take for you to believe in God?

Objective, repeatable, verifiable evidence that a god, any god, exists that is not dependant on faith, feelings, or subjective interpretations of experiences that are unverifiable to anyone else.

(More assumptions about the capital-G Christian God...)

25. What would constitute sufficient evidence for God’s existence?

The same kind of evidence anyone else would need to believe in unicorns, fairies, the Loch Ness Monster, mermaids, leprechauns, dragons, Big Foot, the Abominable Snowman, Yetis, genies, ghosts, the Wizarding World, Sauron, ogres, talking animals, centaurs, the Jersey Devil, Pegasus, satyrs, sirens, sphinxes, vampires, Chupacabras, werewolves, wraiths, thunderbirds, spirits of the [bear/wolf/eagle/beaver/whale/etc.], or any god from any other religion.

If there was a god and it wanted me to believe in it, it would know what kind of evidence would convince me and would provide it.

26. Must this evidence be rationally based, archaeological, testable in a lab, etc., or what?

Evidence should definitely be rationally based. Why would anyone accept evidence that was irrational?

(Well, Tertullian would…)

27. Do you think that a society that is run by Christians or atheists would be safer? Why?

That’s entirely unforeseeable. Are the Christians from the Westboro Baptist Chruch, or are they more Unitarian Universalist with a Christian slant? Are the atheists motivated by a political ideology, or secular humanist ideals?

28. Do you believe in free will? (free will being the ability to make choices without coercion).

I don’t know. I feel like I have free will, but does that feeling necessitate that I do? I feel like some, maybe most, of my choices are made freely, without coercion, but are they really? How often are we blind to the coercive mechanisms in our world that subtly push us toward one choice or another without our realizing it? Is coercion the only limiting factor to whether or not one has free will?

How would one tell the difference between a reality in which one can freely make decisions and a reality where every thought, action and choice is predetermined and you only think you have free will? There’s no real way to tell, and thus no real, objective answer to this question.

29. If you believe in free will, do you see any problem with defending the idea that the physical brain, which is limited and subject to the neuro-chemical laws of the brain, can still produce free will choices?

N/A.

30. If you affirm evolution and that the universe will continue to expand forever, then do you think it is probable that given enough time, brains would evolve to the point of exceeding mere physical limitations and become free of the physical and temporal and thereby become "deity" and not be restricted by space and time? If not, why not?

First of all, evolution and the expansion of the universe aren’t linked.

Second of all, I don’t know whether the universe will expand forever.

Third, seeing as how an expanding universe has nothing to do with whether brains would, or could, evolve to the point of exceeding mere physical limitations, I conclude that this is the stupidest, most convoluted, nonsensical question I’ve come across in a long time.

Fourth, I think the questioner is asking about minds exceeding physical limitations, seeing as “brain” is the description of the hunk of physical grey matter residing inside a skull, and I’m not even sure how a physical object like a brain could exceed it’s own physical limitations… Would it have to get larger than the universe in order to exceed physical limitations? How is that even possible?

Fifth, and finally, if I am correct in assuming the questioner is referring to minds, not brains, everything we know about minds (or consciousness, as if often meant when referring to “minds”) tells us that the mind is entirely dependant on physical brains, and thus could not exceed physical limitations of brains.

The rest of the question regarding becoming deity falls back into the nonsensical.

31. If you answered the previous question in the affirmative, then aren't you saying that it is probable that some sort of God exists?

N/A.

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[Neo-Scholastic]

It's called the Negative Way. According to this mystical tradition any attribution you attempt to assign falls so far short that it highlights the ineffability of God. Try it sometime. It's actually a very illuminating approach to meditation.

And what's the criteria for determining it has fallen short?

The criteria is your own experience. You basically perform a relaxation response exercise then think of any attribute and state it in your mind, then do another and another, etc. While doing so you reflect on each. For example say to yourself,"God is not in space, God is not in time, God is not..."

[genkaus]

And what's the criteria for determining it has fallen short?

The criteria is your own experience. You basically perform a relaxation response exercise then think of any attribute and state it in your mind, then do another and another, etc. While doing so you reflect on each. For example say to yourself,"God is not in space, God is not in time, God is not..."

And how do these reflections fall short?

[Neo-Scholastic]

The criteria is your own experience. You basically perform a relaxation response exercise then think of any attribute and state it in your mind, then do another and another, etc. While doing so you reflect on each. For example say to yourself,"God is not in space, God is not in time, God is not..."

And how do these reflections fall short?

Like I said, try it and find out.

[Clueless Morgan]

And how do these reflections fall short?

Like I said, try it and find out.

Translation: Use confirmation bias in favor of Chad's position, and when it doesn't work for the atheist participating in the suggested exercise proceed to victim blaming.

[Brian37]

[quote='Dolorian' pid='751169' dateline='1410722893']

1. How would you define atheism?
2. Do you act according to what you believe (there is no God) in or what you don't believe in (lack belief in God)?
3. Do you think it is inconsistent for someone who "lacks belief" in God to work against God's existence by attempting to show that God doesn't exist?
4. How sure are you that your atheism properly represents reality?
5. How sure are you that your atheism is correct?
6. How would you define what truth is?
7. Why do you believe your atheism is a justifiable position to hold?
8. Are you a materialist or a physicalist or what?
9. Do you affirm or deny that atheism is a worldview? Why or why not?
10. Not all atheists are antagonistic to Christianity but for those of you who are, why the antagonism?
11. If you were at one time a believer in the Christian God, what caused you to deny his existence?
12. Do you believe the world would be better off without religion?
13. Do you believe the world would be better off without Christianity?
14. Do you believe that faith in a God or gods is a mental disorder?
15. Must God be known through the scientific method?
16. If you answered yes to the previous question, then how do you avoid a category mistake by requiring material evidence for an immaterial God?
17. Do we have any purpose as human beings?
18. If we do have purpose, can you as an atheist please explain how that purpose is determined?
19. Where does morality come from?
20. Are there moral absolutes?
21. If there are moral absolutes, could you list a few of them?
22. Do you believe there is such a thing as evil? If so, what is it?
23. If you believe that the God of the Old Testament is morally bad, by what standard do you judge that he is bad?
24. What would it take for you to believe in God?
25. What would constitute sufficient evidence for God’s existence?
26. Must this evidence be rationally based, archaeological, testable in a lab, etc., or what?
27. Do you think that a society that is run by Christians or atheists would be safer? Why?
28. Do you believe in free will? (free will being the ability to make choices without coercion).
29. If you believe in free will, do you see any problem with defending the idea that the physical brain, which is limited and subject to the neuro-chemical laws of the brain, can still produce free will choices?
30. If you affirm evolution and that the universe will continue to expand forever, then do you think it is probable that given enough time, brains would evolve to the point of exceeding mere physical limitations and become free of the physical and temporal and thereby become "deity" and not be restricted by space and time? If not, why not?
31. If you answered the previous question in the affirmative, then aren't you saying that it is probable that some sort of God exists?

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1. The "off" position on claims of a god or gods. It is a position, it is not a club or moral code. It says nothing about politics, economics, class or education. It simply means "off" on one claim.

2. I act on my evolutionary empathy, but also laws because humans need some sort of organization.

3. Stupid question. If someone said "The Yankees won the Superbowl" you would not be acting against a truth, you would be correcting an absurd claim.

4.Stephen Hakwkins "a god is not required". Evolution is the only place we find cognition. Thinking cannot occur without a material structure anymore than speeding can happen without a car.

5. I can't be sure that invisible pink unicorns don't exist, I simply do not waste my time thinking about such absurd claims. If ifs and buts were candy and nuts.

6.The truth is what can be universally tested and falsified.

7.Because invisible sky hero claims make no sense and no one has any evidence for any of them anyway.

8. Neither. I accept science. "Observable" is anything that affects material things, like you cannot see the center of a black whole, and you cannot see a higgs bolson particle but because we can see the objects they have an affect on, like dark matter, we know it exists.

9."Atheist" is a position as I said before. It is not a club or moral code or political party. It is merely "off" on one claim. We are just as diverse in political and economic views.

10. "Antagonism"? You mean like when people read the bible and antagonize gays and deny them equal rights? Or when Christians call atheists immoral or Satan worshipers? I think anyone would get mad if you said stupid shit like that especially without evidence.

11. My path from believing to atheist took almost a decade but the question that got me thinking was someone who asked me "what if Jesus was just a man."

12. Mute point because that is highly unlikely to happen. But I do think the world would be better off if religion were not protected like soccer fans beating the shit out of each other.

13.No such thing as a utopia so I am not going to try to use force to get people not to believe. But I will verbally fight all absurd claims and fight to keep government secular and prevent it from becoming a theocracy.

14. Dawkins has described it as the "moth mistaking the light bulb for moonlight". I agree. It is our species gap filling. We evolved to form groups but far to often a group will center it's belief on a falsehood. Group survival helps us create offspring and gain resources, but the Egyptians were successful for 3,000 years but that die not make Osirus, Isis or Horus real.

15. Victor Stenger "God The Failed Hypothesis" and his other book "The New Atheism" in which he does rightfully say that science DOES have something to say about god claims.

16.^^^^^^^^^see above. And center of a black whole, dark matter, Higgs Bolson particle.

17. Depends, from the context of the age of the universe no, in 50 billion years from now there will be no record of life or the earth. But while I am alive my "purpose" is to be good, and love myself and my family and others and leave this planet better than I came into it.

18.^^^^^life is what you make it.

19.Morality comes from our evolution. Our species has always displayed the same range of human actions, both compassion and cruelty. You can see elephants mourn and chimps mourn and dogs mourn too.

20.No, you shouldn't lie to steal money from a co worker. But you might lie if an abusive spouse was after his wife and you were hiding her. Case by case and depends.

21. ^^^^repeat.

22."Evil" is when you inflict on someone else extreme emotional harm or physical harm when not done in self defense. Being offended does not count as "evil".

23.Where do you want me to start? See the OT god is the same god as the NT god, he's simply like the abusive spouse in the OT who promises not to hit you again "NT" but goes back to beating you in the end of the book.

The God character itself is not an elected leader. He was not voted into office. You cannot remove him from office. He does not need your consent even though if you grovel and he favors you he "might" let you live. Kim Jong Un is nice to party loyalists too, but you cannot question him or leave him.

24. Evidence, what kind of question is that?

25. Scientific evidence and peer reviewed evidence. But that still would not make him worth worshiping for the reasones stated in 23.

26. Yes.

27. I think global corporatism is hurting us, and is our worst enemy as a species. It does not help that people do not understand that all governments friend and foe invest in banks, fuel and weapons. Religion is a convenient distraction to get people to ignore class warfare is being waged globally on the middle class and poor.

28."free will" is a superstitious word. In science it is spoken in terms of chaos and order, and at the QM level it is not either or but an overlap depending on POV.

29.Your brain does not respond with free will, your brain reacts to stimuli your choices do not change that for the reasons stated in 28. Overlap not either or.

30. No, we will not outlive our bodies, PERIOD Once a structure is broken beyond repair it will not work, just like atoms decay. Some claim we might be able to copy our memories onto a computer, but that would be a simulation of us at that point, it would not be us. That also remains to be seen.

31. People stupidly want to insert a "who" in as a start. Does lightening need Thor to cause it? Does a hurricane need the ocean god Poseidon to cause it? So why would evolution or the universe need a "who" either? We are a outcome of process not a manufactured who.

Which makes more sense to you? A god, any god is real? Or humans make them up?

[genkaus]

And how do these reflections fall short?

Like I said, try it and find out.

Tried it - went all the way to "god is not real". Didn't feel like falling short.

[Lemonvariable72]

1. How would you define atheism?
A lack of belief in god(s)
2. Do you act according to what you believe (there is no God) in or what you don't believe in (lack belief in God)?
Yes.
3. Do you think it is inconsistent for someone who "lacks belief" in God to work against God's existence by attempting to show that God doesn't exist?
No, not with all loons that cause harm in the name of their respective deities.
4. How sure are you that your atheism properly represents reality?
As certain as one can be given the information available to me.
5. How sure are you that your atheism is correct?
Well in my case atheism is simply the default position because of my skeptical nature. That means that it is a tenantive positive really based on the best evidence and reasoning available to me
6. How would you define what truth is?
I suppose I would define as what is most in line with reality.
7. Why do you believe your atheism is a justifiable position to hold?
Because of a lack of evidence to hold a position that asserts the existence of a deity
8. Are you a materialist or a physicalist or what?
Never been much into philosophy, so I really can't tell you which is more inline with my views.
9. Do you affirm or deny that atheism is a worldview? Why or why not?
Nope, it is just a position on a small subset of issues.
10. Not all atheists are antagonistic to Christianity but for those of you who are, why the antagonism?
Namely because christians often attempt to force their worldview on everyone.
11. If you were at one time a believer in the Christian God, what caused you to deny his existence?
The bible and its utter ridiculousness. For example, god creates a human male body that clearly has homosexuality in mind in its very design and then labels homo sexuality as a sin punishable by death, when he would know that homo sexuality is not harmful to anyone when provided in the context of a healthy relationship.
12. Do you believe the world would be better off without religion?
Yes.
13. Do you believe the world would be better off without Christianity?
Yes
14. Do you believe that faith in a God or gods is a mental disorder?
No, just a wrong position. It is often the result of childhood indoctrination.
15. Must God be known through the scientific method?
To be honest I'd settle for him coming shake to my hand and talk to me like a person once in a while.
16. If you answered yes to the previous question, then how do you avoid a category mistake by requiring material evidence for an immaterial God?
Funny, your bible describes him as quite material, in both exodus and the gospels.
17. Do we have any purpose as human beings?
Well in the christian sense, the determination of a purpose by god means that ultimately I have no more purpose then a wrench. I think that we ultimately the universe experiencing itself, so yes we have a purpose.
18. If we do have purpose, can you as an atheist please explain how that purpose is determined?
By giving ourselves the best possible experience for us. After all we won't be by this way agian
19. Where does morality come from?
Reason tempered with empathy.
20. Are there moral absolutes?
No.
21. If there are moral absolutes, could you list a few of them?
22. Do you believe there is such a thing as evil? If so, what is it?
Yes, purposely hurting others for selfish gain.
23. If you believe that the God of the Old Testament is morally bad, by what standard do you judge that he is bad?
Because he continues hurts other for his own gain.
24. What would it take for you to believe in God?
Evidence
25. What would constitute sufficient evidence for God’s existence?
What is sufficient evidence for the eixtance of my mothers dog?
26. Must this evidence be rationally based, archaeological, testable in a lab, etc., or what?
What sort of evidence is not rationally based?
27. Do you think that a society that is run by Christians or atheists would be safer? Why?
Neither, but a society run by secular humanists would be best.
28. Do you believe in free will? (free will being the ability to make choices without coercion).
Nope.
29. If you believe in free will, do you see any problem with defending the idea that the physical brain, which is limited and subject to the neuro-chemical laws of the brain, can still produce free will choices?
We can not, all things in this universe have been set in motion since the begining of time. Do to the nature of this universe we are merely acting out a long chain of causes and effects, with the illusion of freewill.
30. If you affirm evolution and that the universe will continue to expand forever, then do you think it is probable that given enough time, brains would evolve to the point of exceeding mere physical limitations and become free of the physical and temporal and thereby become "deity" and not be restricted by space and time? If not, why not?
Given what I know now? No, though we could possibly achieve god like technology(I think this unlikely, as we are a fucking dumb species) it is likely there are some laws of physics in this universe that will always bind us. Like relativity and the laws of thermodynamics.
31. If you answered the previous question in the affirmative, then aren't you saying that it is probable that some sort of God exists?
It is possible, but not probable.