If

[Surgenator]

What was your point then?

I pretend that the doctors are a bunch of idiots when in fact they know very well when someone is dead.
This in reply to someone that believe in physical science but for his own interest does not believe in doctors which are specialists in medical science.

You still have to provide evidence that there exist something other than the physical world.

Your evidence is testimonials. Testimonials are the worst kind of "evidence" because the pateints don't know the cause, the time of the cause, are suggestable, etc... You have to better than that to convince someone. There is actual research done on NDE's that you seem to ignoring.

If what you say make any sense then the NDEs would be all different and would contradict each other but they don't.
They all end up in the same place so it is your idea that doesn't make any sense.

Oh, but they are different and contradictory. Some people experience are nightmarish, some are heavenly.

You keep forgeting that these experience can be forced without the peoples lives being in danger. If they're not dying, no "soul" is leaving the body. So why would have these NDE's. The simpliest answer, it is all in your head.

So now the tactic is ignore the countering evidence and live in your lala land.

Let us hear your counter evidence.

Here is the link again.

It doesn't matter how many people follow exactly what Buddha says. The Buddhist religion says the ultimate goal is to rid oneself of wants. It's all internally focused. So your imaginary seperation between spiritualism is internal and religion is external is bullshit.

If 99% of the so called Buddhists would follow what Buddha say then i would say that Buddhism is spirituality but as i know it is only less then 1% that follow what Buddha said that is why i can say that today Buddhism is religion.

You don't get to change the definitions of words to fit your view. I still bafaled at your constant appeal to the population. You can't seem to realize that it's a falacy.

Lets try this example, there are about 99% of the people practicing yoga who do it solely for the exercise. They do not believe the karma or other mysticism that comes with it. So yoga is not a spiritual.

Did you spot the falacy in my example. That is the same falacy your consistently making.

[Brian37]

I pretend that the doctors are a bunch of idiots when in fact they know very well when someone is dead.
This in reply to someone that believe in physical science but for his own interest does not believe in doctors which are specialists in medical science.

You still have to provide evidence that there exist something other than the physical world.

If what you say make any sense then the NDEs would be all different and would contradict each other but they don't.
They all end up in the same place so it is your idea that doesn't make any sense.

Oh, but they are different and contradictory. Some people experience are nightmarish, some are heavenly.

You keep forgeting that these experience can be forced without the peoples lives being in danger. If they're not dying, no "soul" is leaving the body. So why would have these NDE's. The simpliest answer, it is all in your head.

Let us hear your counter evidence.

Here is the link again.

If 99% of the so called Buddhists would follow what Buddha say then i would say that Buddhism is spirituality but as i know it is only less then 1% that follow what Buddha said that is why i can say that today Buddhism is religion.

You don't get to change the definitions of words to fit your view. I still bafaled at your constant appeal to the population. You can't seem to realize that it's a falacy.

Lets try this example, there are about 99% of the people practicing yoga who do it solely for the exercise. They do not believe the karma or other mysticism that comes with it. So yoga is not a spiritual.

Did you spot the falacy in my example. That is the same falacy your consistently making.

Yoga is not required to exorcise. Nor is it a religion. Buddhism is a religion regardless of how you try to make it more earthy, is still rooted in superstition and is a religion that is big enough to set up social order to a political level.

Buddhism has different sects just like every other religion and it's members can and do incorporate superstitions basing them on their religions. That is no different than claiming to be a secular Jew or cultural Christian.

Religion is nothing more than a different form of politics masking itself as morality.

[robvalue]

Intuitional science? That's a new one. Care to elaborate on that?

[abaris]

Intuitional science? That's a new one. Care to elaborate on that?

This morning I briefly considered to adress that bullshit in his post, but I didn't think it worthy of any or my time.

[Cyberman]

Intuitional science? That's a new one. Care to elaborate on that?

Oh, please don't get him started...

[Little Rik]

You still have to provide evidence that there exist something other than the physical world.

In previous posts i discuss this topic time and time again.
Consciousness in humans it is like an iceberg.
You got the visible part above the water and the non-visible part under the water which by the way is the bigger part which vary from person to person.
My job is to bring my part that is below the water up and yours is to deal with yours.
You can not help me to perform this job and i can not help you and when i or you are able to bring this knowledge up we can not pass such a knowledge to each other that is why it is impossible to give evidence that me or you have brought this knowledge up.
High degree of consciousness go well behind the border of physical knowledge and what is not physical belong to the individual owner and it is not transferable.

Some people experience are nightmarish, some are heavenly. You keep forgeting that these experience can be forced without the peoples lives being in danger. If they're not dying, no "soul" is leaving the body. So why would have these NDE's. The simpliest answer, it is all in your head.

First of all you should understand what is the difference between a natural feeling and a feeling caused by drugs or medications.
Too often critics and denialists can not understand the difference.
These people are stuck in the corral of physical reality so it obvious that they can not understand what exist outside their corral.

Here is the link again.

Micheal Shermer is a bit of a nutcase.
He change his views time and time again as the reality emerge.
In 72 he voted for Nixon and then has been a strong supporter of gun laws to then change his mind later on.
He grew up as a christian to change later on and become an atheist.
Actually there is nothing wrong with changing.
We all change for the better or the worse but as many other he pretend to understand what his consciousness hasn't allow him so far.
This guy is still stuck in a world where the physical part dominate so at the moment there will not be any chances that he can understand what is above physicality.

You don't get to change the definitions of words to fit your view. I still bafaled at your constant appeal to the population. You can't seem to realize that it's a falacy. Lets try this example, there are about 99% of the people practicing yoga who do it solely for the exercise. They do not believe the karma or other mysticism that comes with it. So yoga is not a spiritual. Did you spot the falacy in my example. That is the same falacy your consistently making.

You say that 99% practicing yoga.
These people practice ASANAS which are part of yoga so they are convinced that they are practicing yoga but yoga is a lot more than physical exercises.
The real yoga is meditation first of all and then asanas, a vegetarian diet and a code of moral conduct.
Asanas is not spirituality because when you do exercises only you don't worship any God or any religious divinity.
Buddhist on the contrary worship a divinity so we can say that these 99% have absolutely nothing to do with spirituality while the 1% or so that practice the whole yoga are engaged in spirituality.
You are making a terrible confusion Surgen.

[Tonus]

You still have to provide evidence that there exist something other than the physical world.

In previous posts i discuss this topic time and time again.

Discussing the topic is not the same as providing evidence.

And yes, I'm aware that your reply to that is to explain that you cannot possibly produce evidence of what you are discussing, as if that somehow bolsters your claims instead of undermining them.

[robvalue]

If you cannot provide evidence, why should anyone believe you?

How is it different from me making stuff up and asking you to believe it?

Saying what you believe, and saying someone else should believe it too, are very different.

---

I think "evidence" must be theists least favourite word. It's kind of the mirror image of "faith". Which is my least favourite. Both the same side of a different coin, a coin I spent a long time ago. (Stolen quote)

[Surgenator]

You still have to provide evidence that there exist something other than the physical world.

In previous posts i discuss this topic time and time again.
Consciousness in humans it is like an iceberg.
You got the visible part above the water and the non-visible part under the water which by the way is the bigger part which vary from person to person.
My job is to bring my part that is below the water up and yours is to deal with yours.
You can not help me to perform this job and i can not help you and when i or you are able to bring this knowledge up we can not pass such a knowledge to each other that is why it is impossible to give evidence that me or you have brought this knowledge up.
High degree of consciousness go well behind the border of physical knowledge and what is not physical belong to the individual owner and it is not transferable.

Where is the evidence for the "non-visible part?" And personal experiences are not evidence because they're unreliable. schizophrenic patients see things; it doesn't what they see is real.

Some people experience are nightmarish, some are heavenly. You keep forgeting that these experience can be forced without the peoples lives being in danger. If they're not dying, no "soul" is leaving the body. So why would have these NDE's. The simpliest answer, it is all in your head.

First of all you should understand what is the difference between a natural feeling and a feeling caused by drugs or medications.
Too often critics and denialists can not understand the difference.
These people are stuck in the corral of physical reality so it obvious that they can not understand what exist outside their corral.

I was indirectly refering to people experiencing high accelarations, i.e. fighter pilots in centrifuges. No drugs or medications were involved. All natural, same effect as NDEs without their lives endangered.

As a side, what is the difference between the dopamine made in a lab and the dopamine made by your body. I'll give you a hint, nothing.

Here is the link again.

Micheal Shermer is a bit of a nutcase.
He change his views time and time again as the reality emerge.
In 72 he voted for Nixon and then has been a strong supporter of gun laws to then change his mind later on.
He grew up as a christian to change later on and become an atheist.
Actually there is nothing wrong with changing.
We all change for the better or the worse but as many other he pretend to understand what his consciousness hasn't allow him so far.
This guy is still stuck in a world where the physical part dominate so at the moment there will not be any chances that he can understand what is above physicality.

The fact Micheal Shermer changes his mind doesn't change his arguments. Please address his arguments not the man.

You don't get to change the definitions of words to fit your view. I still bafaled at your constant appeal to the population. You can't seem to realize that it's a falacy. Lets try this example, there are about 99% of the people practicing yoga who do it solely for the exercise. They do not believe the karma or other mysticism that comes with it. So yoga is not a spiritual. Did you spot the falacy in my example. That is the same falacy your consistently making.

You say that 99% practicing yoga.
These people practice ASANAS which are part of yoga so they are convinced that they are practicing yoga but yoga is a lot more than physical exercises.
The real yoga is meditation first of all and then asanas, a vegetarian diet and a code of moral conduct.
Asanas is not spirituality because when you do exercises only you don't worship any God or any religious divinity.
Buddhist on the contrary worship a divinity so we can say that these 99% have absolutely nothing to do with spirituality while the 1% or so that practice the whole yoga are engaged in spirituality.
You are making a terrible confusion Surgen.

Every heard of the "no true scotsman fallacy." If you haven't, look it up because you're commiting it here. You cannot reject yoga practitioners just because they don't fit into your definition.

[robvalue]

Is there a "No true "No true Scotsman fallacy" fallacy"?