What came first, the atheist or the theist?

[Edwardo Piet]

Even if that were so somehow, newborn babies aren't atheists and newborn babies come before adults. Also atheism predates even Homo Sapiens

EvF

[Cecco]

according to your theory atheism was created at the exact moment the big bang happened. even though there was no conscious mind to even think of the concept.

---

and to say a rock is an atheist, apart from being obviously insane, is just as stupid as saying a rock in a theist. for you could say that a rock doesn't believe that there isn't a god either.

[Edwardo Piet]

No the concept of atheism didn't exist until someone thought it up. But that's different to atheism itself. Atheism itself is the absence of belief in Gods... and when the big bang started there was an absence of belief in gods, there was no "theism". It would make no sense to label anything as "atheist" unless it was a living being.... but since atheism is just the absence of belief in God, that existed before there were any atheists to give the label around.

Just as there were no bicycle riders before bicycles or people existed... there was no theism or belief in God before there were any people, animals, or anything living or non-living at all

[Tiberius]

according to your theory atheism was created at the exact moment the big bang happened. even though there was no conscious mind to even think of the concept.

No, that isn't what we are saying at all. Concepts are created by humans, and can be applied retrospectively. As soon as the car was invented, you either owned one or you didn't. Before cars were invented, nobody owned them, so you can apply the concept retrospectively and say that nobody owned a car before it was invented.

I'll also point out that some things do not need a mind to think of a concept before they can exist. The Big Bang brought forth many things, none of which at the time had a concept behind them, let alone a name. We came up with names for them and applied them retrospectively, and the same can be said of concepts like atheism. Apply them retrospectively and it is irrelevant whether they were realized concepts at the time you are applying them to.

[Eilonnwy]

Cecco, the egg came first. Glad we cleared that up.

[Tiberius]

Actually, quantum fluctuations came first. Well...we think they did.

[Cecco]

so then do we agree atleast that the idea of there being a god propped up in a human mind earlier in history than did the idea of there not being a god?

it is not the same as the chicken and the egg at all.

[Paul the Human]

No one said, "I do not believe in god" until after someone else said, "There is a god." That much is true. Before that, no one believed in god, since the concept had not been thought up yet. Since atheism is the lack of belief in god... everyone was atheist until the first claim that a god exists came to be. They didn't have a word for it yet, obviously, but we do now. That word is 'atheism'.

[Tiberius]

Yes, the idea of there being a God was there before the idea of there not being a God. This fact is irrelevant to what we are discussing, which is whether theists or atheists came first. Theism and atheism deal with *belief* in ideas, not the ideas themselves. You certainly need to understand the idea in order to believe in it, and so before theists could exist, the idea of God had to exist. The same is not true for atheism, since it is the opposite of theism; you do not need to understand (or even know about) the idea of God to not believe in it, in the same way you don't need to understand (or even know about) a car in order to not own one.

[Godhead]

Paul -

Before you become aware of the concept of god, yes you can say that you had no opinion either way. But as soon as you do become aware of the concept, you will of course form an opinion one way or the other. You will either say "yes I believe there is one", or you'll say "No, I believe that there isn't one".