I'm an atheist but I quite like Buddism...

[Mudhammam]

I also notice that this "practical benefits" horseshit is the same as crooning about some magical fruit: we hear -that- from their christard brethren as well. Taken up for the same reasons, justified with the same style, by the same people. Meh.

I don't think so. Meditation, in certain ancient traditions, is actually quite sensible, and even some cognitive scientists have begun to make use it for understanding certain experiential states. Unlike Christianity, it doesn't require complete credulity, just an interest to explores one's self through practice and patience.

[The Grand Nudger]

Which ancient traditions, and is the ancient tradition any functional part of whatever "sensible" thing you have in mind? More sensible than shitting on the sidewalk or less sensible than shitting on the sidewalk (honest question, lol)? In what way does this particular form of meditation help scientists understand experiential states (and which states)?

I think that you'll find christianity to be just as ala carte as any "ancient tradition", btw..and that doesn't really salvage christianity for me so it's not going to salvage some ancient tradition. But, opinions and positions vary, obvs.

[Elskidor]

I've always thought meditation is just sitting around and thinking to yourself. I'm an introvert so I never found much use.

[Mudhammam]

Which ancient traditions, and is the ancient tradition any functional part of whatever "sensible" thing you have in mind? More sensible than shitting on the sidewalk or less sensible than shitting on the sidewalk (honest question, lol)? In what way does this particular form of meditation help scientists understand experiential states (and which states)?

I think that you'll find christianity to be just as ala carte as any "ancient tradition", btw..and that doesn't really salvage christianity for me so it's not going to salvage some ancient tradition. But, opinions and positions vary, obvs.

Well, not having experience with any myself, I can only refer you to the statements of one devoted practitioner whose works I find, for the most part, credible, and that is Sam Harris; he specifically talks about the teachings of Buddhism and Advaita Vedanta as including a number of useful beliefs and methods about the self and how one can lose all sense of it, and discipline their mind so as to attain states of spiritual bliss, peace, quiet, etc., through the ABSENCE of all thought. I'd recommend his book, "Waking Up: A Guide to Spirituality Without Religion."

[Whateverist]

.. as including a number of useful beliefs and methods about the self and how one can lose all sense of it, and discipline their mind so as to attain states of spiritual bliss, peace, quiet, etc., through the ABSENCE of all thought. I'd recommend his book, "Waking Up: A Guide to Spirituality Without Religion."

I've never given it any thought buy my intuition tells me I would agree.

[psychoslice]

I've always thought meditation is just sitting around and thinking to yourself. I'm an introvert so I never found much use.

Meditation is the opposite of sitting and thinking, meditation is sitting and having no thoughts at all, its separate from the thoughts that arise, its seeing the thoughts as they arise and not getting attached to them. The mind becomes separate, and the realization of being separate from the mind is witnessed, even the witness who is separate from the mind eventually dissolves and all there is is pure silence.

[The Grand Nudger]

It's both psycho. Because it's ridiculous wooster shit...it can be whatever the operator wants it to be. I know it sure helped with my glaucoma!
(I've had a wonderful experience /w meditation btw, just once - in many attempts...but it was pretty sweet. Doesn't really mean much though, I know enough to know that..lol)

[psychoslice]

It's both psycho. Because it's ridiculous wooster shit...it can be whatever the operator wants it to be. I know it sure helped with my glaucoma!
(I've had a wonderful experience /w meditation btw, just once - in many attempts...but it was pretty sweet. Doesn't really mean much though, I know enough to know that..lol)

And this is the whole thing, its what it means to you, it cannot be someone's else's experience, so we can never argue about it, for what are we going to argue about. Those who have experienced it don't need to argue, they only point the way.

[roaster]

I like how by a good deal of research and study people mean they read the wikipedia article on it.

I like how people make blanket statements that make them look close minded. So next time you want to be CapnAssumption PM me first!

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[/quote]
I don't think so. Meditation, in certain ancient traditions, is actually quite sensible, and even some cognitive scientists have begun to make use it for understanding certain experiential states. Unlike Christianity, it doesn't require complete credulity, just an interest to explores one's self through practice and patience.
[/quote]

Thats was my point from before. I have found that the common aspects of different applications of meditation tend to be valid, the increased mindfulness, increased concentration and reflective decision making. The pomp and circumstance that many of the faith based meditations may have developed from an attempt to achieve a certain response, or realization. I don't get bogged down in their specific ideological applications but the practice or pattern they use for achieving that is interesting. At least in how it is similar to other practices. No theistic smoke and mirrors, or judgements. Just interested in the ways I can apply what others have put into practice and gotten results.

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[psychoslice]

I like how by a good deal of research and study people mean they read the wikipedia article on it.

I like how people make blanket statements that make them look close minded. So next time you want to be CapnAssumption PM me first!

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I don't think so. Meditation, in certain ancient traditions, is actually quite sensible, and even some cognitive scientists have begun to make use it for understanding certain experiential states. Unlike Christianity, it doesn't require complete credulity, just an interest to explores one's self through practice and patience.
[/quote]

Thats was my point from before. I have found that the common aspects of different applications of meditation tend to be valid, the increased mindfulness, increased concentration and reflective decision making. The pomp and circumstance that many of the faith based meditations may have developed from an attempt to achieve a certain response, or realization. I don't get bogged down in their specific ideological applications but the practice or pattern they use for achieving that is interesting. At least in how it is similar to other practices. No theistic smoke and mirrors, or judgements. Just interested in the ways I can apply what others have put into practice and gotten results.

---

[/quote]
I don't think so. Meditation, in certain ancient traditions, is actually quite sensible, and even some cognitive scientists have begun to make use it for understanding certain experiential states. Unlike Christianity, it doesn't require complete credulity, just an interest to explores one's self through practice and patience.
[/quote]

Thats was my point from before. I have found that the common aspects of different applications of meditation tend to be valid, the increased mindfulness, increased concentration and reflective decision making. The pomp and circumstance that many of the faith based meditations may have developed from an attempt to achieve a certain response, or realization. I don't get bogged down in their specific ideological applications but the practice or pattern they use for achieving that is interesting. At least in how it is similar to other practices. No theistic smoke and mirrors, or judgements. Just interested in the ways I can apply what others have put into practice and gotten results.
[/quote]

That's very nice blanket statement.