Why are all atheists liberals?

[One Above All]

Never heard of such a movement in my life, from any source. Got a link for that?

You've never heard of Atheism+? Seriously?

I have. Never heard them say that if you're not a "Social Justice Warrior", you're not an atheist. They also don't meet the criteria for being liberals.

[Dystopia]

You've never heard of Atheism+? Seriously?

I have. Never heard them say that if you're not a "Social Justice Warrior", you're not an atheist. They also don't meet the criteria for being liberals.

This depends on how much any atheism+ member wants to erase capitalism and change the system.

[abaris]

This depends on how much any atheism+ member wants to erase capitalism and change the system.

There's quite a difference between wanting to erase capitalism and wanting to change the system.

[Cephus]

You've never heard of Atheism+? Seriously?

I've heard of the name, because someone on one of these boards asked if it is dead. But this is the first time I've heard a glimmer of what it might be about.

Not my fault you don't do research. Atheism+ and it's associated groups hold that you can't be an atheist unless you're also a social justice warrior and a radical feminist. It and it's supporters have gotten plenty of mainstream media attention. It is the group that came up with the atheist blockbot on Twitter. While I have no idea if that particular group is still all that active, the ideas that it represented are still widely associated with Internet atheism.

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I have. Never heard them say that if you're not a "Social Justice Warrior", you're not an atheist. They also don't meet the criteria for being liberals.

Then you haven't listened very clearly, they have, or had, a very "you're either with us or you're shit" philosophy, perhaps best characterized by historian Richard Carrier when he said: "There is a new atheism brewing, and it’s the rift we need, to cut free the dead weight so we can kick the C.H.U.D.’s back into the sewers and finally disown them, once and for all."

And whether you consider them liberals or not, they most certainly consider themselves liberals. I consider them assholes.

[Regina]

http://media.giphy.com/media/ciP0N1QVpJ8Xe/giphy.gif[/img]

Just found a new reaction gif...

Nothing to add to the topic of discussion, it was a silly suggestion in the first place no shade

[One Above All]

I consider them assholes.

We are in agreement on this part.

[Dystopia]

This depends on how much any atheism+ member wants to erase capitalism and change the system.

There's quite a difference between wanting to erase capitalism and wanting to change the system.

Yes, but if you want to reform the system you are either a liberal or at most a social liberal/social democrat - Both positions are based on liberalism. If you want to erase capitalism you're not a liberal. I'm saying that A+ being liberal or not depends - Liberals are usually supportive of social justice, so I wouldn't be surprised if most of A+ was strongly liberal, but still I maintain the point that both conservatives and liberals get their arguments from classical liberalism, the difference is merely on how much responsibility the state has for the individual - Voting conservative or liberal doesn't make a drastic change in the system.

Then you haven't listened very clearly, they have, or had, a very "you're either with us or you're shit" philosophy, perhaps best characterized by historian Richard Carrier when he said: "There is a new atheism brewing, and it’s the rift we need, to cut free the dead weight so we can kick the C.H.U.D.’s back into the sewers and finally disown them, once and for all."

And whether you consider them liberals or not, they most certainly consider themselves liberals. I consider them assholes.

From what I've read there a lot of them hate capitalism and want to dissolve it or drastically change it - That's not very liberal, liberals may be supportive of welfare but they don't defend abolishing capitalism - I'd say they are socialist or socialistic oriented - And no, it's not the same as being liberal, it's a drastic different position altogether - Check the above post as well. BTW, good to have more conservative atheists on board

[abaris]

Liberals are usually supportive of social justice, so I wouldn't be surprised if most of A+ was strongly liberal, but still I maintain the point that both conservatives and liberals get their arguments from classical liberalism, the difference is merely on how much responsibility the state has for the individual - Voting conservative or liberal doesn't make a drastic change in the system.

Yeah, I am for social justice. But I'm also for a free market. What I'm asking for are checks and balances so that society doesn't pay the price for capitalism running amok. We've witnessed a situation where losses were socialized and gains were privatized. And that's certainly not my idea of a free market. If you take risks, you bloody well can pay out of your own pocket. It's also not my idea of a free market to create monopolys. If you can no longer make a conscious choice between products or services, it's ultimately bad for the consumer. And ultimately I'm against subsidizing businesses. If your business isn't able to run under it's own steam, it's got no business being a business.

[Dystopia]

So you are the average liberal or social-liberal (someone who advocates the free market with state responsibility with the disadvantaged + social justice) - I'm not even saying you're wrong, but the socialist argument (I just feel like sharing what my socialist friends say) is that capitalism will always be oppressive because even if you reform it away from oppression the rich continue to pass their wealth inside families, finding ways to evade the system and have the power to lobby with the government, force privatizations, exploit third world countries, create crisis, etc - So the basic argument is that any social justice will fail until you overthrown capitalism.

[Cephus]

From what I've read there a lot of them hate capitalism and want to dissolve it or drastically change it - That's not very liberal, liberals may be supportive of welfare but they don't defend abolishing capitalism - I'd say they are socialist or socialistic oriented - And no, it's not the same as being liberal, it's a drastic different position altogether - Check the above post as well. BTW, good to have more conservative atheists on board

They self-identify as liberal, it doesn't really matter whether you agree or not, that's what they're putting forward. There are plenty of out-and-out socialists who self-identify as liberals, just like there are plenty of out-and-out anarchists who self-identify as libertarians.