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16For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. John 3:16
The bible states this but then it goes on to contradict itself as it often tends to do with the following verses.
13Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness, there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.14For many are called, but few are chosen. Matthew 22:14
This was a parable likening the kingdom of God to an Earthly king inviting guests to a wedding. The following verses backs this up.
13Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:14Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it. Matthew 7:13,14
This last verse led to a controversy about predestination and salvation.
4According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: 5Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, Ephesians 1:4.5
So one on end salvation is for all who believe and on the other not everyone who calls himself a Christian will be saved.
There is nothing people will not maintain when they are slaves to superstition
September 1, 2010 at 5:35 am (This post was last modified: September 1, 2010 at 5:41 am by solja247.)
Quote:According to bible atheists wont get salvation am I correct?
Please show me some texts...
Quote:@solja 247
Jesus said that no one could come unto the Father except through Him and since He was giving His life for us I believe He understood what He said. John 14:6
Heirs to the kingdom of God. Gal. 4:1-7
John 3:16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten son that whosoever believes in Him shall have eternal life. salvation
Christ came to redeem us. Titus 2:11-14
Only those who believe in Christ as the redemptive Son of God, as the above states.
Before I answer this, when Jesus died on the cross, did He give grace to all people, or just to Christians?
Quote:
16For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. John 3:16
But who was Jesus talking to? context, context and context!
Its ok to have doubt, just dont let that doubt become the answers.
You dont hate God, you hate the church game.
"God is not what you imagine or what you think you understand. If you understand you have failed." Saint Augustine
Your mind works very simply: you are either trying to find out what are God's laws in order to follow them; or you are trying to outsmart Him. -Martin H. Fischer
(August 31, 2010 at 7:39 pm)solja247 Wrote: I would like to start this thread for Christians and Atheists (and whoever else). Something which I have struggled with is, who gets salvation?
Is just for Christians (Who dont even read their Bible) or is it given too all?
Before I defend my position I would like to hear what you guys believe, but use the Bible to back it up!!!
The reason why no-one can answer this is becuase of religious confusion. Even the religious can't agree.
What if you accept JC into your heart (whatever that means) but you're a mudering paedophile, who repents all sins immediately before death and in every other way is a 'good christian', what happens to you?. What if you a a highly moral atheist who lives a blameless existence and is a model citizen, where do you go?
No one can agree, and to be frank who cares becuase a) it isn't true and b) if it were hell sounds more appealing than being prostrate all day to a diety c) if it were most people should expect damnation as a matter of probability.
"I still say a church steeple with a lightning rod on top shows a lack of confidence"...Doug McLeod.
His invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse.
Romans 1:20 ESV
Captain Scarlet wrote: "What if you a a highly moral atheist who lives a blameless existence and is a model citizen, where do you go?"
According to the bible if you do not accept Jesus as Lord and Savior you will be cast into eternal damnation.
Galatians 2:16
Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
8For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9Not of works, lest any man should boast. Ephesians 2:8,9
There is nothing people will not maintain when they are slaves to superstition
(September 1, 2010 at 1:31 pm)chatpilot Wrote: According to the bible if you do not accept Jesus as Lord and Savior you will be cast into eternal damnation.
If the christian religion is true, there would be many innocent, upstanding and ethical people in hell. Whilst all the vile immoral pigs gloat about how right they are.
I'd rather go to hell and share the pain and suffering with fellow atheists and such than to be with vile pigs while watching good people suffer for a finite victemless crime.
I have yet to witness a religious wacko say something smart and reasonable about the beliefs they hold.
Why can't god allow a third option for those who want nothing to do with him, afterlife...the whole religious thing? We come into existance without asking for it, surely it's not asking to much to go back into non-existance once our time is up? Opt out for any afterlife sort of thing? Why not?
Like voting, you can vote either way or you can choose not to vote at all. I'd like to see a theist here to explain why god doesn't allow a third option?
Obviously there already is a third option - Atheism.
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence - Carl Sagan
Mankind's intelligence walks hand in hand with it's stupidity.
Being an atheist says nothing about your overall intelligence, it just means you don't believe in god. Atheists can be as bright as any scientist and as stupid as any creationist.
You never really know just how stupid someone is, until you've argued with them.
I completely agree with you Ace God is a complete prick lol. I would rather go to hell myself than to spend eternity kissing his ass and telling him how wonderful he is any day.
But who was Jesus talking to? context, context and context!
John 3:16 says the world I guess that pretty much covers everyone. By this time the church was already offering salvation to both Gentiles and Jews alike.
There is nothing people will not maintain when they are slaves to superstition
September 1, 2010 at 10:29 pm (This post was last modified: September 1, 2010 at 10:45 pm by Godscreated.)
(September 1, 2010 at 1:32 am)chatpilot Wrote:
16For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. John 3:16
The bible states this but then it goes on to contradict itself as it often tends to do with the following verses.
13Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness, there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.14For many are called, but few are chosen. Matthew 22:14
This was a parable likening the kingdom of God to an Earthly king inviting guests to a wedding. The following verses backs this up.
13Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:14Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it. Matthew 7:13,14
This last verse led to a controversy about predestination and salvation.
4According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: 5Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, Ephesians 1:4.5
So one on end salvation is for all who believe and on the other not everyone who calls himself a Christian will be saved.
I could call myself the president of the United States but that doesn't make it so. To become the president there is a procees of acceptance.
(September 1, 2010 at 1:46 pm)Ace Wrote:
(September 1, 2010 at 1:31 pm)chatpilot Wrote: According to the bible if you do not accept Jesus as Lord and Savior you will be cast into eternal damnation.
If the christian religion is true, there would be many innocent, upstanding and ethical people in hell. Whilst all the vile immoral pigs gloat about how right they are.
I'd rather go to hell and share the pain and suffering with fellow atheists and such than to be with vile pigs while watching good people suffer for a finite victemless crime.
I have yet to witness a religious wacko say something smart and reasonable about the beliefs they hold.
Why can't god allow a third option for those who want nothing to do with him, afterlife...the whole religious thing? We come into existance without asking for it, surely it's not asking to much to go back into non-existance once our time is up? Opt out for any afterlife sort of thing? Why not?
Like voting, you can vote either way or you can choose not to vote at all. I'd like to see a theist here to explain why god doesn't allow a third option?
Obviously there already is a third option - Atheism.
Sorry Ace He gave no third option it's just the two and it's your choice. Being an atheist at judgement is no different than being a unrepentant sinner.
God loves those who believe and those who do not and the same goes for me, you have no choice in this matter. That puts the matter of total free will to rest.
Salvation would include everyone in the world, because I highly doubt that there would be anyone who is 100% "sin-free." Untill someone makes this "fact" and not a "belief" , it's pretty much another myth that just won't go away.
