Atheism Ireland denounces hateful bigot PZ Myers

[Alex K]

I don't care about atheist bloggers and leaders anymore - I feel that way about pretty much all atheist figures ranging from small youtubers to superstars like Dawkins - All of them have said pretty dumb shit and this isn't exclusive to PZ Myers

Yep. I guess as soon as "the atheist movement" becomes a thing, focus shifts from activism in atheism and secularism to movement politics and infighting, nicely fuelled by some asshole trolls.

[Dystopia]

And I value some arguments made against religion - The main figures in the atheist movement can be good debate professors and to understand the problems with religion, but they all had flaws - Hitchens was slightly pro-life and pretty much said men are biologically superior to women in comedy; Dawkins made some weird twitter rants about how mild rape/paedophilia is better than serious rape/paedophilia and how it is immoral to have Down Syndrome kids etc and Harris argued racial profiling of Muslims and said torturing them is inevitable etc - I like to see them as good against religion but they're not particularly good in anything else (other than science and their respective specialities/PhD's) - For this reason I think we should not worship them - From my experience when someone admires a figure we tend to agree with EVERYTHING they say and that's a dangerous route to take (it's simply our bias telling us that the person is perfect)

[Alex K]

In the case of Dawkins, it was almost unavoidable that people would mix personal admiration and admiration of his work, since he basically is and was a strong identification figure and source of fighting words for closeted atheists who had not previously come in contact with scientific skepticism. Science is this fire that Prometheus Dawkins gives to the masses to fight their way out of religious oppression. Science! is messiah Dawkins' call to scatter the demons of religion. It's appealing And I think he started believing it himself at some point, which makes him so insufferable at times.

[Thumpalumpacus]

Myers is a sad caricature of his former self and is now a full fledged crank. He is someone that attained some notoriety, but has conferred upon himself a type of atheist beatification based solely on the fawning adulation provided by the sycophants he surrounds himself with.

Exactly. His refusal to hear any opinion that doesn't comport with his own marks him as blinkered.

I stopped reading and commenting on Pharyngula a few years ago based on the censorship practiced there. He wanted an echo chamber, he's got one now, and good luck with that.

[Alex K]

I don't think the Pharyngula blog will ever have the same charm and relative importance it had in the 2000s. People are just going to not bother any more. Too bad, I really thought it was an interesting place. Oh, those good old days when new atheism was fresh and exciting, back in 2007...

[TheMessiah]

I don't care about atheist bloggers and leaders anymore - I feel that way about pretty much all atheist figures ranging from small youtubers to superstars like Dawkins - All of them have said pretty dumb shit and this isn't exclusive to PZ Myers

Dawkins has said some bad things, but he has not incited hatred to the level of PZ Myers. Dawkins is very careful in his ''dumb shit'' --- he mostly mocks religion but not to the extent of PZ Myers.

Explain to me how it's not exclusive to PZ Myers.

[Dystopia]

What I am saying is that all figures end up saying very dumb things - PZ Myers never interested me but figures make mistakes - Like I pointed out earlier Harris defended racially profiling brown skinned people because of Muslim terrorists - That seems a little like racial prejudice to me and it's not any better than hating Christians.

As for the part of PZ - Inciting hatred against Christians is pretty much useless because Christians are still privileged in most of the western world and hold significant amounts of power.

[TheMessiah]

And I value some arguments made against religion - The main figures in the atheist movement can be good debate professors and to understand the problems with religion, but they all had flaws - Hitchens was slightly pro-life and pretty much said men are biologically superior to women in comedy; Dawkins made some weird twitter rants about how mild rape/paedophilia is better than serious rape/paedophilia and how it is immoral to have Down Syndrome kids etc and Harris argued racial profiling of Muslims and said torturing them is inevitable etc - I like to see them as good against religion but they're not particularly good in anything else (other than science and their respective specialities/PhD's) - For this reason I think we should not worship them - From my experience when someone admires a figure we tend to agree with EVERYTHING they say and that's a dangerous route to take (it's simply our bias telling us that the person is perfect)

You are misrepresenting what Hitchens said. His argument was that men needed to be funnier than women did --- it was nothing to do with biology, it was cultural.

Dawkins pedophilia comments need context. His argument was that 'mild' pedophilia, of the 1950s was actually common. However, his argument is that he struggles to condemn people of that era who would have behaved in that way in contrast to someone of modern times. This is what he said:

I am very conscious that you can’t condemn people of an earlier era by the standards of ours. Just as we don’t look back at the 18th and 19th centuries and condemn people for racism in the same way as we would condemn a modern person for racism, I look back a few decades to my childhood and see things like caning, like mild pedophilia, and can’t find it in me to condemn it by the same standards as I or anyone would today,”

I am aware that Harris argued in favor of profiling Muslims, however when did he say ''inevitable torture''?

In regards to Hitch, he clarified his stance on female-male comedy and how his stance had been misrepresented.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8S692f1tnuQ

[dyresand]

I've said it elsewhere, I still think his heart is in the right place, but he gets so angry against everyone lately that it's unhealthy. I hope he gets his shit together and calms down before he dies of a heart attack, which he's in danger to anyway. I've commented on his blog comments section in past years, but don't go there anymore because of the restrictive arrogant atmosphere and in fighting. It was a really cool place a few years ago.

I think he went downhill once the Atheism Plus cult started. He was pretty vocal in it but the behavior displayed there by him and others was akin to angry religious cults --- since A + began and ultimately collapsed, he has begun to display really vile behavior.

Recently he had been attacking Ayaan Hirsi Ali I believe and making a strawman for no reason. The dude is just asking for shit. Sad to see a grown man, especially one whom I so deeply respected act like a child. His arguments with religion are very good, but he veers into shit that doesn't make him look good.

It was all Atheism Plus those people on there were assholes and even if you did bring up a decent argument against there own, they would call out the lynching mob.
All in all the site is dead from its own idiocracy and with Anita joining things gotten progressively worse even for PZ you can't blame him for getting this hateful but he really
should watch what he says and puts out there. Because well i understand how angry a person can get but even still i wouldn't go that far and even if i wrote something angrily i try to tone it down as much as possible.

[TheMessiah]

What I am saying is that all figures end up saying very dumb things - PZ Myers never interested me but figures make mistakes - Like I pointed out earlier Harris defended racially profiling brown skinned people because of Muslim terrorists - That seems a little like racial prejudice to me and it's not any better than hating Christians.

As for the part of PZ - Inciting hatred against Christians is pretty much useless because Christians are still privileged in most of the western world and hold significant amounts of power.

I am aware that Harris made the argument in favor of profiling Muslim, however what PZ Myers was inciting was hatred and borderline violence. This is a fundamental difference between the New Atheists and the 5th wheel PZ Myers. They know their limits, he does not.

Inciting hatred against Christians is NOT okay just because Christians are ''privileged''. That's a silly excuse for hating someone, it sounds like a skewed Marxist justification of hating someone.

Is it okay to hate Jews? Jews in America are white and privileged too. And they hold A LOT of power. Or, is it wrong to hate Jews because that would be Antisemitism?

---

I think he went downhill once the Atheism Plus cult started. He was pretty vocal in it but the behavior displayed there by him and others was akin to angry religious cults --- since A + began and ultimately collapsed, he has begun to display really vile behavior.

Recently he had been attacking Ayaan Hirsi Ali I believe and making a strawman for no reason. The dude is just asking for shit. Sad to see a grown man, especially one whom I so deeply respected act like a child. His arguments with religion are very good, but he veers into shit that doesn't make him look good.

It was all Atheism Plus those people on there were assholes and even if you did bring up a decent argument against there own, they would call out the lynching mob.
All in all the site is dead from its own idiocracy and with Anita joining things gotten progressively worse even for PZ you can't blame him for getting this hateful but he really should watch what he says and puts out there. Because well i understand how angry a person can get but even still i wouldn't go that far and even if i wrote something angrily i try to tone it down as much as possible.

Yeah, I agree most of them were assholes. And the lynch mob tactics were not good. It was akin to a religious forum...which is why I am against Atheism + ideology. What makes Atheist communities so great is the lack of belief which brings people together.

I think PZ has lost a lot of his audience over time. It's a shame because he made some tremendous arguments.