Internal playback

[Exian]

I know what you mean. And when you have one in your head and you have to try on the instrument to find it, there's the danger that it will slip away from the distraction.

Oh yeah! That happens too often for my liking. You get pretty good at constantly recreating the emotion just to stay in that particular head space. It can get taxing. By the time I've finished a song, I've probably played it nearly 1,000 times. I have a program that lets me put things to sheet music, but I don't find that nearly as therapeutic, as a process. I'll usually put it to sheet music only once I've finished the whole thing, and I only do that because I've lost countless songs over the years that only exist as a vague feeling I have now. Haha That sucks.

[Joods]

@ Pocaracas: Which is why I'm glad you said something. I need to bring gum on the plane with me this evening.

[Alex K]

Not sure if this is along the same lines, but when I sing, I hear myself differently than what other people do. I think I'm singing off key when I see video of myself singing. This really bothers me a lot.

That's because, when you hear yourself the sound takes an internal path, throat -> nose -> Eustachian tube -> tympanic membrane.
And when you hear external sound, it comes through the external auditory canal to the tympanic membrane.

But that shouldn't change the frequency from on key to off key...  It could be though that the different coloration of ones voice on the recording throws one off.

[Joods]

That's because, when you hear yourself the sound takes an internal path, throat -> nose -> Eustachian tube -> tympanic membrane.
And when you hear external sound, it comes through the external auditory canal to the tympanic membrane.

But that shouldn't change the frequency from on key to off key...  It could be though that the different coloration of ones voice on the recording throws one off.

In my head, I'm on key. I've been told I'm on key. Yet when I hear the playback, to me - it sounds horrible and I really hate that because I find it really hard to accept compliments when I sing.

[pocaracas]

That's because, when you hear yourself the sound takes an internal path, throat -> nose -> Eustachian tube -> tympanic membrane.
And when you hear external sound, it comes through the external auditory canal to the tympanic membrane.

But that shouldn't change the frequency from on key to off key...  It could be though that the different coloration of ones voice on the recording throws one off.

Shouldn't? why?
It's very possible that some frequencies get dampened in the Eustachian tube.

It is common for you to ask others, when hearing your own voice recorded: Do I really sound like that?
And the answer is usually "yes".
Nowadays, the recordings are quite accurate.

[pocaracas]

Oh, coloration of sound... that's messed up.

[Exian]

Having a different sound texture is different than being off key. It's possible to be on key and sound horrible, which might make someone who isn't familiar with music say its off key.

[Alex K]

@ Pocaracas: Which is why I'm glad you said something. I need to bring gum on the plane with me this evening.

I'm a bit jealous. I quick trip to FL would suit me nicely right now.

---

But that shouldn't change the frequency from on key to off key...  It could be though that the different coloration of ones voice on the recording throws one off.

Shouldn't? why?
It's very possible that some frequencies get dampened in the Eustachian tube.

There's a big difference between changing the relative strength of overtones and singing out of tune. If I sing an a, the frequencies I produce at the same time are ideally
440, 880, 1320, 1760 Hz,.. and so forth..., where 440 is usually the strongest and defines the pitch. The characteristic texture  of my voice is mainly created by the relative strength of these components, and what I hear in my head and what is recorded will mainly differ in this respect, which of those overtones are amplified to which extent. If on the other hand I changed the frequency and sang 430, 860, 1290, 1720 Hz instead, I'd be out of tune.

[pocaracas]

Shouldn't? why?
It's very possible that some frequencies get dampened in the Eustachian tube.

There's a big difference between changing the relative strength of overtones and singing out of tune. If I sing an a, the frequencies I produce at the same time are ideally
440, 880, 1320, 1760 Hz,.. and so forth..., where 440  is usually the strongest and defines the pitch. The characteristic texture  of my voice is mainly created by the relative strength of these components, and what I hear in my head and what is recorded will mainly differ in this respect, which of those overtones are amplified to which extent. If on the other hand I changed the frequency and sang 430, 860, 1290, 1720 Hz instead, I'd be out of tune.

Believe it or not, I realized you said that... 5 seconds after pressing the post button on my reply up there...
But if some of those harmonics are missing or dampened, it will sound weird... and this weirdness can be interpreted as out of tune...
Maybe it'd be in tune, if the person didn't know it was him/her-self who sang that recording.
Expectations play a big role in our perception of sensory input.

[Alex K]

Believe it or not, I realized you said that... 5 seconds after pressing the post button on my reply up there...  
But if some of those harmonics are missing or dampened, it will sound weird... and this weirdness can be interpreted as out of tune...
Maybe it'd be in tune, if the person didn't know it was him/her-self who sang that recording.
Expectations play a big role in our perception of sensory input.

I assumed as much, but why should I let such a nice opportunity to pontificate on one of my favourite topics go to waste? And who knows, maybe someone here wasn't aware of it.

I guess that Judi's impression of being out of tune really comes from the grating experience of hearing ones own voice from the outside.