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**robvalue** · April 28, 2015 at 3:38 am

It is the hardest thing to know: what do theists believe, and what do they just say they believe? I'd agree that such a reaction indicates at least scepticism in the concept of hell. Or else they are the world's best actors!

**Alex K** · April 28, 2015 at 3:42 am

(April 28, 2015 at 3:38 am)robvalue Wrote: It is the hardest thing to know: what do theists believe, and what do they just say they believe? I'd agree that such a reaction indicates at least scepticism in the concept of hell. Or else they are the world's best actors!

Dan Dennett in breaking the spell advances a kind of Schroedingers Cat view of religion: many believers have only a diffuse rational picture of what they believe, and only once you ask will they try to really define and formulate it, but what you then get is not really what made them tick as members of the faith all that time. He used that for aboriginal religions I think, but it seems to apply to people in western society I know as well.

**Jericho** · April 28, 2015 at 4:50 am

That is an interesting concept, Alex.

**robvalue** · (This post was last modified: April 28, 2015 at 5:50 am by robvalue.)

I've never had many conversations with theists face to face.

I have a kind of image in my mind of how it would go. They say a bunch of vague stuff about Jesus, and he died to save us, and so on. I ask, "Save us from what?"

Then I imagine gears creaking into motion that have not moved in many years, dust and old congealed oil going everywhere, a long silence... and then a long series of ad-hoc answers showing that they've put next to no thought into what it actually means.

That is an entirely fictional strawman of course which exists only in my mind. I wonder if that is how it would go if I did discuss with a theist IRL.

SteelCurtain · April 28, 2015 at 6:31 am

Jericho, it is awesome that you have supportive parents. I waited until I was away in college before I told my family, who are fundies. Their reaction amazed me as well. My father's didn't, I always knew he'd be fine with it, but my mother's reaction blew me away. She was sad (she says she won't be able to spend eternity with me and that breaks her heart) but 100% supportive.

Just goes to show that parenting instinct is sometimes stronger than our instinct that allows us to see patterns and connections in everything.

Exian · (This post was last modified: April 28, 2015 at 7:22 am by Exian.)

The other possibility for Jerocho's parent's reaction, keeping with their beliefs, is that they are holding out hope for two things: either that you'll one day find you're way back to Christianity, or that you will somehow be allowed in heaven anyways.

I always find Christians who don't suppose the actions of god more palatable. Otherwise, they have to reconcile god sending good people to hell, or adding the middle man by damning them to hell themselve (the fucking worst Christians). When I was a Christian, the closest thing to a religion I could find that would explain the type of Christian I was, and my family are, is Opus Dei, which I also think describes the American Christians I see in my area more accurately.

AFTT47 · April 28, 2015 at 9:47 am

I'm actually surprised at all the people who have problems coming out, at least once they're independent. I've never been shy about my atheism and have encountered little hostility. It might be because I am confident and unapologetic about it or maybe it's just the type of people I've talked to. I'm a small sample size, obviously just being one person.

Anyway, good for you Jericho.

**Jericho** · April 28, 2015 at 12:25 pm

Well I don't have an issue with my decision or talking about it, but there are just certain people I refuse to tell. For instance, I am not going to tell my 80-year old grandmother who is a devout Christian because I love her and such a declaration very well might kill her.

AFTT47 · April 28, 2015 at 12:51 pm

(April 28, 2015 at 12:25 pm)Jericho Wrote: Well I don't have an issue with my decision or talking about it, but there are just certain people I refuse to tell. For instance, I am not going to tell my 80-year old grandmother who is a devout Christian because I love her and such a declaration very well might kill her.

That's understandable. I've never been in a situation like that.

**Minimalist** · April 28, 2015 at 12:59 pm

Frequently Jericho we see around here pleas from young teens about how to deal with their super religious families who are cramming religious bullshit up their asses. While dependent on parents for support there is never a very good answer to those issues. The best I can normally come up with is 'grin and bear it, get a job so you are around them less and less."

You show the other side of the coin. When someone is able to engage the theistic family on an equal playing field the result is not normally a display of parental threats and disapproval. And if there is there is little they can do to make those threats happen.

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