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RE: The Historical Reliability of the New Testament
May 31, 2015 at 12:17 pm
(May 31, 2015 at 9:37 am)robvalue Wrote: The thing is, Randy doesn't believe in any of Christianity for these reasons. He already assumes the bible is not just accurate but innerant. If you believe that, all of this history stuff is irrelevant. You can't get from historically accurate to innerant without another big reason to assume such a massive thing.
And you can hardly study a text objectively that you have already decided is word perfect, now can you? You are forced to always conclude it is correct, no matter what arguments you have to make to convince yourself.
So if even Randy doesn't believe for these reasons, I'm not sure why we are expected to. Sadly no one seems interested in discussing the real reasons. What we are given are the cover arguments, the rationalisations. And they simply don't work, as has been shown at length here. I handed over every single assumption that could possibly be conceded, and still the argument comes down to special pleading.
This is all my opinion, of course  He is welcome to correct me.
It is irrelevant how or why I personally believe in Christianity.
What is relevant is that if the gospels are reliable, then Christianity is possibly true.
Reading the NT has been the means by which many atheists have come to faith in Jesus, and while the converse is also true (I'm told), that fact alone should cause you to re-consider the constant drum-beat of your assertion that Christians are making assumptions about the Bible before they ever open it.
While that MAY be true in some cases, but it is clearly not in others. Thus, your objection is not particularly strong or important.
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RE: The Historical Reliability of the New Testament
May 31, 2015 at 12:19 pm
Quote:It is irrelevant how or why I personally believe in Christianity.
Actually, it is just a personality flaw. You should see a shrink.
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RE: The Historical Reliability of the New Testament
May 31, 2015 at 12:19 pm
(May 31, 2015 at 11:45 am)Rhythm Wrote: We swoon over appeals to authority even quicker. Step up your game, Randy.
I'm going to make a suggestion, because you're not doing well, and I want you to do well. What you need to find (I'm guessing you're incapable, personally) is not someone willing to say "x", but, someone willing to demonstrate "x". Eh?
Demonstrate history?
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RE: The Historical Reliability of the New Testament
May 31, 2015 at 12:20 pm
(This post was last modified: May 31, 2015 at 12:21 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
Demonstrate both the method employed, and the data used, Carson...don't be dense. Have you taken a moment to consider the advice I gave you, about changing your method?
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: The Historical Reliability of the New Testament
May 31, 2015 at 12:20 pm
(May 31, 2015 at 11:57 am)dyresand Wrote: (May 31, 2015 at 11:44 am)Randy Carson Wrote: Says the voice from the peanut gallery with no degrees from Oxford University and no knighthood in recognition of his contribution to the science of archaeology.
You don't need to be a genius or have a degree from Oxford or even knight hood to know that the NT is bullshit.
It's a great piece of literature but something no one should follow. The bible is fiction always has always will be.
You do realize that this is just an assertion, right?
Will you be making an argument in support of your claim?
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RE: The Historical Reliability of the New Testament
May 31, 2015 at 12:21 pm
(May 31, 2015 at 12:20 pm)Rhythm Wrote: Demonstrate both the method employed, and the data used, Carson...don't be dense. Have you taken a moment to consider the advice I gave you?
I doubt this one could demonstrate how to make a sandwich.
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RE: The Historical Reliability of the New Testament
May 31, 2015 at 12:23 pm
(May 31, 2015 at 12:20 pm)Rhythm Wrote: Demonstrate both the method employed, and the data used, Carson...don't be dense. Have you taken a moment to consider the advice I gave you, about changing your method?
But what if I can't help being dense? 
In all seriousness, what on earth are you talking about in the highlighted phrase above?
Can you be just a little more descriptive or detailed in what you are suggesting? I'm all ears.
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RE: The Historical Reliability of the New Testament
May 31, 2015 at 12:23 pm
(This post was last modified: May 31, 2015 at 12:29 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
Just want him to know he has the opportunity, and whether or not that opportunity is squandered is entirely on his shoulders Min.
-And no, Carson, it would be impossible to be more specific, do you want to have a discussion or are you trolling us? Again, do you understand -why- your continued appeals o authority or majority aren't convincing...and do you understand -why-, no matter how many authorities you prop up..they will -continue- to be unconvincing? Do you expect, at some point...that someone will suddenly become convinced by what is fundamentally unconvincing, or do you just not know of any other way to discuss this subject?
I can help.
(I received a quality catholic education, after all..don'tcha know)
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: The Historical Reliability of the New Testament
May 31, 2015 at 12:38 pm
(May 31, 2015 at 12:08 pm)Randy Carson Wrote: About Tim O'Neill
Tim O'Neill is an atheist blogger who specializes in reviews of books on ancient and medieval history as well as atheism and historiography. He holds a Master of Arts in Medieval Literature from the University of Tasmania and is a subscribing member of the Australian Atheist Foundation and the Australian Skeptics. He is also the author of the History versus The Da Vinci Code website and is currently working on a book with the working title History for Atheists: How Not to Use History in Debates About Religion. He finds the fact that he irritates many theists and atheists in equal measure a sign that he's probably doing some good. Follow his blog at Armarium Magnum.
So, yeah. That's not good for ignorant atheists... Another fun fact about Tim O'Neill: like Jesus, he karate chopped some ass here, and then just up and disappeared: http://atheistforums.org/thread-31832-page-20.html
He who loves God cannot endeavour that God should love him in return - Baruch Spinoza
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RE: The Historical Reliability of the New Testament
May 31, 2015 at 1:06 pm
(May 31, 2015 at 12:23 pm)Rhythm Wrote: Just want him to know he has the opportunity, and whether or not that opportunity is squandered is entirely on his shoulders Min.
-And no, Carson, it would be impossible to be more specific, do you want to have a discussion or are you trolling us? Again, do you understand -why- your continued appeals o authority or majority aren't convincing...and do you understand -why-, no matter how many authorities you prop up..they will -continue- to be unconvincing? Do you expect, at some point...that someone will suddenly become convinced by what is fundamentally unconvincing, or do you just not know of any other way to discuss this subject?
I can help.
(I received a quality catholic education, after all..don'tcha know)
Ah...I think I understand what you're saying. (If not let me know.)
No, I don't expect "appeals to authority" to make my case...at least not all on their own and certainly not with all hearers of my defense.
However, it is common in a court trial for all kinds of expert witnesses to be brought in to provide opinions and background information, etc. If I cite an authority, at least others know that this viewpoint rests on more than my own personal opinions. SOMEBODY with some serious academic chops holds the same view, etc.
So, I think it is reasonable for me to cite scholars, Christians and Atheists, who support my views. Don't you?
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