Why be good?

[Dystopia]

Well since you started with why don't you define good? In the OP you say there is no reason to be good without believing in god - But before we get to that, we need to know what is considered "good", right? What do you consider good? Is it what says in the bible? What you feel god wants you to do? What the church priest/minister commands people to do? What your parents taught you?

[Homeless Nutter]

There are no atheists in foxholes. When you think you are about to die, you'll be ready to get serious with God.

Spoken like a true coward. We all KNOW we're going to die eventually. Most of us have dealt with it, even though - from your naive and narrow point of view - it may appear, that we simply haven't thought of it. There are other - and more rational - ways of getting over the fear of death, than denying actuality of death entirely. 

And since we're being morbid, let me make this "prediction": when you are about to die - provided it's not a sudden death - you just may figure out, that it is the actual end and that you have been fooled. It may be the last clear thought in your head. Who knows how many theists silently curse god with their dying breath? I'm going to assert, that it's many. And you can't prove otherwise.
 

[Esquilax]

He made us in His image.

And here it is, that exact problem I predicted, where theists attempting to answer this question do so in vague irrelevancies, with the expectation that we'll just take the leap of faith between those two unconnected points. Well, I won't: how does "god created man in his image," in any way entail that "god gets to judge us"?

God does not opine. He knows. And He doesn't have to think it through and come to a conclusion through a process of discovery. He knows.

Except if he doesn't, which is kinda the important part; beyond the fiat assertion that god just knows, you have absolutely no way of confirming that, and worse still, you're conflating an assertion of certainty with the actual state of knowledge one has about an event. I can proclaim I know this, and I know that, but that doesn't mean I actually do, it just means I'm willing to go out on a limb and say that I do.

For example, it's impossible for god to know everything, because he would not be able to know that he knows everything; obviously, if god is ignorant of the existence of things, he would still believe himself to know everything, while actually not, as he is unaware of the things he does not know. That's kinda how ignorance of things works. Unknown unknowns are a problem for us all, god is not excluded from that merely because you believe god knows everything.

Because might makes right.

Oh, that and the fact that God does not opine. He knows.

So, a completely immoral, morally relativistic claim, from the man who started this thread talking about how he believes in objective, transcendent moral absolutes... so there's the basis of this thread up in smoke, good job there.

Oh, and the completely unjustified fiat assertion. Can't forget that.

There are no atheists in foxholes. When you think you are about to die, you'll be ready to get serious with God.

Okay, serious question: what the fuck is actually wrong with you?

Why do you think it's at all acceptable to behave this way? Why do you think you have this right to dictate to me what my position is, to tell me what I know and feel? Do you honestly think that's a good way to go about conversation? Do you see me doing that to you?

And how dare you, by the way, impugn the beliefs of atheists, including those who have died protecting your presumptuous, condescending ass from all manner of things? Where do you get off speaking for the atheist soldiers, risking their lives for all of us? Who the hell do you think you are?

Well, I can answer a bit of that: you're flat wrong, is what you are, and I can tell you why. You probably haven't met my wife, she hasn't been around the forum much lately, but do you want to know why that is? She's sick. She's been sick for a long time, close to death more than once, actually. Her deconversion began on what could very much have been her deathbed, in intensive care, as her organs started failing and your god was nowhere to be found, as her family prayed for her recovery, and she placed her faith in god to cure her, forgoing medical treatment to that end.

Do you know what saved her life? Giving up on your god, and going with the medical treatment. The limitations of her ability to believe your puerile nonsense saved. her. life. She was at her sickest in that moment, obviously, as her condition was only getting worse when she had faith, and in that moment the beautiful atheist woman I know and love began to emerge. She was about to die, and she was ready to leave your useless concept of a god behind, and you do not get to speak for her!

She had another low point just recently, could have easily died then too, just after we got married. She didn't, three surgeries later and she's getting better, but there was no prayer, there was no entreaties to god to save her, there was no hospital bed conversion, nor any sacharrine nonsense; when she bled so much, spontaneously and suddenly, that she needed a blood transfusion, the chaplain came, and the chaplain was refused when he offered to pray with us. My wife is stronger than the weakness you wish to snidely foist upon us, and you do not get to speak for her, or for me, or for any of us.

Maybe I sound mad. Maybe through your haze of self-righteous asinine horse shit you picked up on that. Well, it's true, I am angry. It drives me to apoplexy when I see arrogant moral monsters like you loftily descending from your perch to deign to tell us unwashed heathens what we believe. It truly angers me when you feel you have the right to rob us of our voices, to jam your self-reinforcing delusions into our mouths, all the while luxuriating in the pretense that you're here for an intellectually rigorous debate. It pisses me right the fuck off to watch you swan around and pretend you know better than me, a complete stranger, about what I believe.

So congrats for that. Good job. Not a day goes by when you aren't a poster child for the utterly repulsive things your religion degrades its believers into.

[Pyrrho]

....

.... We all KNOW we're going to die eventually. ...
 

I think you have misjudged matters. Randy Carson is proving to you that death is a great good. You won't have to read any of his BS ever again at that point. I know I am looking forward to that.

[SteelCurtain]

There are no atheists in foxholes. When you think you are about to die, you'll be ready to get serious with God.

You are quite the officious, condescending ass, aren't you? Who the fuck are you to dictate anything about anyone other than yourself?

When I was a Naval Officer, I was licensed to lead PTSD support groups. I was stationed at MCAS Miramar in San Diego, CA. I talked to hundreds of Marines and Soldiers who were and remained atheists while getting shelled, shot at, and blown up. Each and every one of them used the fact that they have one life to live as motivation not only to persevere in theater, but also to get better afterwards.

How dare you dictate for them what that experience was like, they who put their lives on the line so you could tell them what staring at death is like.

Fuck you, Randy Carson.

[Jackalope]

When you think you are about to die, you'll be ready to get serious with God.

You're quite mistaken. I've been in that situation twice, and that fact can be attested to personally by another person on this forum (Kitty Galore).

At no time during either ordeal did I even give a single thought to "God".

This caricature of atheists that you've constructed isn't even amusing, it's insulting.

[Thumpalumpacus]

There are no atheists in foxholes. When you think you are about to die, you'll be ready to get serious with God.

I was a firefighter in the USAF, and have confronted my own possible demise several times more since then as well.

I can tell you that I was much too busy thinking about how I was going to stay alive to spare a single thought to your god ... And my brother firefighters might well have been praying for all I know, but they kept it to themselves.

If your god truly does exist, he is unworthy of my worship, and the proximity of death doesn't change that for me.

Also, it is a terribly shabby deity you worship if you must use fear to change minds regarding his existence.

Pretty sad you have to trot out something palpably false even as you claim to be pursuing truth. Color me amused.

[Cyberman]

“Maybe there are only atheists in foxholes. If the faithful truly and fully believe in a protective deity, why would they dive into a foxhole to protect themseleves from the bullets whizzing by? A part of their brain knows damn well that if they do not protect themselves, the bullets will hardly discriminate between those who claim faith and those who reject it.”
-- J. Anderson Thomson, Jr., MD
why we believe in god(s)

Fuck you and the god you rode in on, Randy.

[robvalue]

Very nice quote. I came up with my own smart-ass thingy a while ago:

God only helps those who helps themselves, and only as much as they help themselves.

[Cyberman]

A local shop had a similar one on a sign to warn potential shoplifters - "God help those who help themselves." Absolutely true story.