Stump the Christian?

[Faith No More]

Just as bad as the anti-science stance is the historical revisionism. Rewriting our nation's past to make it appear as if we were founded as a Christian nation is as equally egregious as telling people we were sculpted from dirt 6,000 years ago.

[SteveII]

While interesting, what does the religious beliefs of scientist have to do with Christians getting in the way of science? I would be very concerned if scientist allowed their religion to inform their work. Science itself has no goal other than knowledge. The proper Christian response to science is discover all you can about the universe. Ethics of stem cells, cloning, and other things are a different topic.

Proper Christian response? Has this been your problem in this entire conversation? Do you think there is one proper Christian response/position? I was at least extneding the courtesy of not lumping all Christians into the insanity that is the Evangelical community. This is part of the problem I've been alluding to. Many Christians, and certainly those that are considered the Christian right, would disagree with you. Please don't tell me you are unaware of the constant attempt to shove Creationism into science curricula.

You cannot dismiss ethics and politics in this discussion because it is precisely in these arenas that the religious right can have any sway in the sciences; understanding that religion by its very nature is bereft of any contribution to science in its strict academic sense. The anti-science stance of the religious right is a direct impediment to the advancement of scientific knowledge.

It depends on the topic whether there is a proper Christian response. Some things are very clear (love your neighbor). Others things are open to interpretation. I think the proper Christian response to science is let the scientist experiment (within the bounds of ethics). Science has no opinions or worldview. It makes no claims. There are only facts. It is when people of science make philosophical statements that there is a problem--then you cross from science into philosophy.  

I think evolution should be studied. However, I do object to the teaching as fact, that all life has evolved from nothing and everything has a common ancestor. I think the science curriculum should stop at describing what the theories are and how they work and not stray into statements best left to other fields (like philosophy and religion).  

And while I have not really followed the campaign for creationism in the science classroom, does it really matter? Is this really a disaster as some claim? If you want to discuss other creation stories from other religions, who cares? It might be better for students to understand there are other views. 

Can you give me an example of the anti-science stance of the Christian right? I send my daughter to a very conservative Christian college (Grove City College). They have a stellar reputation in the STEM subjects and graduates are snapped up by Fortune 100 companies 4 weeks before graduation. 

[SteveII]

Just as bad as the anti-science stance is the historical revisionism.  Rewriting our nation's past to make it appear as if we were founded as a Christian nation is as equally egregious as telling people we were sculpted from dirt 6,000 years ago.

Can you give an example how the past was rewritten? Or are you just pointing out that Christians use this idea in political arguments?

[FatAndFaithless]

Some things are very clear (love your neighbor).

Wow. Even your 'very clear' example is shit. Some sects interpret that as only a commandment for the Jews to love their fellow Jews. Some narrow that further to their specific tribe (literally, their neighbors). Some say it means that you have an obligation to evangelize to your neighbors, as that's the best way to express one's 'love'. Some say loving thy neighbor is a byproduct of the bigger command to love god above all things. Some say it means to live justly and strive for equality between your neighbor and yourself. Some say it even includes your enemies, even those actively trying to do you harm.

You seem to have a pretty narrow view of that passage if you think there's no disagreement across Christianity on what it means.

[Faith No More]

As far as creationism being a disastrous claim, my father, the Christian with a Ph.D. in organic chemistry, says creationism is a joke which flies in the face of all scientific understaning.

I'm inclined to agree.

[Faith No More]

Can you give an example how the past was rewritten? Or are you just pointing out that Christians use this idea in political arguments?

It hasn't actually been rewritten. But there are plenty trying. Here's one of the worst offenders...

Barton has collected 100,000 documents from before 1812 — original or certified copies of letters, sermons, newspaper articles and official documents of the Founding Fathers. He says they prove that the Founding Fathers were deeply religious men who built America on Christian ideas — something you never learn in school.

http://www.npr.org/2012/08/08/157754542/...r-heard-of

Then there are things like the adding of the phrase "under God" into the pledge of allegiance by Christians in the 1950's. There's more, but don't have the time right now...

[SteveII]

Some things are very clear (love your neighbor).

Wow.  Even your 'very clear' example is shit.  Some sects interpret that as only a commandment for the Jews to love their fellow Jews.  Some narrow that further to their specific tribe (literally, their neighbors).  Some say it means that you have an obligation to evangelize to your neighbors, as that's the best way to express one's 'love'.  Some say loving thy neighbor is a byproduct of the bigger command to love god above all things.  Some say it means to live justly and strive for equality between your neighbor and yourself.  Some say it even includes your enemies, even those actively trying to do you harm.

You seem to have a pretty narrow view of that passage if you think there's no disagreement across Christianity on what it means.

I'm having trouble finding multiple interpretations of this:

The Parable of the Good Samaritan

25 On one occasion an expert in the law stood up to test Jesus. “Teacher,” he asked, “what must I do to inherit eternal life?”
26 “What is written in the Law?” he replied. “How do you read it?”
27 He answered, “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind’[c]; and, ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’[d]”
28 “You have answered correctly,” Jesus replied. “Do this and you will live.”
29 But he wanted to justify himself, so he asked Jesus, “And who is my neighbor?”
30 In reply Jesus said: “A man was going down from Jerusalem to Jericho, when he was attacked by robbers. They stripped him of his clothes, beat him and went away, leaving him half dead. 31 A priest happened to be going down the same road, and when he saw the man, he passed by on the other side. 32 So too, a Levite, when he came to the place and saw him, passed by on the other side. 33 But a Samaritan, as he traveled, came where the man was; and when he saw him, he took pity on him. 34 He went to him and bandaged his wounds, pouring on oil and wine. Then he put the man on his own donkey, brought him to an inn and took care of him. 35 The next day he took out two denarii[e] and gave them to the innkeeper. ‘Look after him,’ he said, ‘and when I return, I will reimburse you for any extra expense you may have.’
36 “Which of these three do you think was a neighbor to the man who fell into the hands of robbers?”
37 The expert in the law replied, “The one who had mercy on him.”
Jesus told him, “Go and do likewise.”

[dyresand]

Wow.  Even your 'very clear' example is shit.  Some sects interpret that as only a commandment for the Jews to love their fellow Jews.  Some narrow that further to their specific tribe (literally, their neighbors).  Some say it means that you have an obligation to evangelize to your neighbors, as that's the best way to express one's 'love'.  Some say loving thy neighbor is a byproduct of the bigger command to love god above all things.  Some say it means to live justly and strive for equality between your neighbor and yourself.  Some say it even includes your enemies, even those actively trying to do you harm.

You seem to have a pretty narrow view of that passage if you think there's no disagreement across Christianity on what it means.

I'm having trouble finding multiple interpretations of this:

The Parable of the Good Samaritan

25 On one occasion an expert in the law stood up to test Jesus. “Teacher,” he asked, “what must I do to inherit eternal life?”
26 “What is written in the Law?” he replied. “How do you read it?”
27 He answered, “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind’[c]; and, ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’[d]”
28 “You have answered correctly,” Jesus replied. “Do this and you will live.”
29 But he wanted to justify himself, so he asked Jesus, “And who is my neighbor?”
30 In reply Jesus said: “A man was going down from Jerusalem to Jericho, when he was attacked by robbers. They stripped him of his clothes, beat him and went away, leaving him half dead. 31 A priest happened to be going down the same road, and when he saw the man, he passed by on the other side. 32 So too, a Levite, when he came to the place and saw him, passed by on the other side. 33 But a Samaritan, as he traveled, came where the man was; and when he saw him, he took pity on him. 34 He went to him and bandaged his wounds, pouring on oil and wine. Then he put the man on his own donkey, brought him to an inn and took care of him. 35 The next day he took out two denarii[e] and gave them to the innkeeper. ‘Look after him,’ he said, ‘and when I return, I will reimburse you for any extra expense you may have.’
36 “Which of these three do you think was a neighbor to the man who fell into the hands of robbers?”
37 The expert in the law replied, “The one who had mercy on him.”
Jesus told him, “Go and do likewise.”

Yeah but what breaks the whole jesus thing is even historians agree that a biblical jesus never existed. Whats even more damning against christianity 
there has been jesus like figures before in mythology. yeshua or jesus never even existed or even died there is not historical evidence outside of the bible.
Also mary his mother also never existed either. So yeah the bible its a bunch of lies/metaphors. 

[FatAndFaithless]

Wow.  Even your 'very clear' example is shit.  Some sects interpret that as only a commandment for the Jews to love their fellow Jews.  Some narrow that further to their specific tribe (literally, their neighbors).  Some say it means that you have an obligation to evangelize to your neighbors, as that's the best way to express one's 'love'.  Some say loving thy neighbor is a byproduct of the bigger command to love god above all things.  Some say it means to live justly and strive for equality between your neighbor and yourself.  Some say it even includes your enemies, even those actively trying to do you harm.

You seem to have a pretty narrow view of that passage if you think there's no disagreement across Christianity on what it means.

I'm having trouble finding multiple interpretations of this:

The Parable of the Good Samaritan

25 On one occasion an expert in the law stood up to test Jesus. “Teacher,” he asked, “what must I do to inherit eternal life?”
26 “What is written in the Law?” he replied. “How do you read it?”
27 He answered, “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind’[c]; and, ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’[d]”
28 “You have answered correctly,” Jesus replied. “Do this and you will live.”
29 But he wanted to justify himself, so he asked Jesus, “And who is my neighbor?”
30 In reply Jesus said: “A man was going down from Jerusalem to Jericho, when he was attacked by robbers. They stripped him of his clothes, beat him and went away, leaving him half dead. 31 A priest happened to be going down the same road, and when he saw the man, he passed by on the other side. 32 So too, a Levite, when he came to the place and saw him, passed by on the other side. 33 But a Samaritan, as he traveled, came where the man was; and when he saw him, he took pity on him. 34 He went to him and bandaged his wounds, pouring on oil and wine. Then he put the man on his own donkey, brought him to an inn and took care of him. 35 The next day he took out two denarii[e] and gave them to the innkeeper. ‘Look after him,’ he said, ‘and when I return, I will reimburse you for any extra expense you may have.’
36 “Which of these three do you think was a neighbor to the man who fell into the hands of robbers?”
37 The expert in the law replied, “The one who had mercy on him.”
Jesus told him, “Go and do likewise.”

Well, here are few interpretations of "love thy neighbor"...

The generic "treat everyone well" interpretation.
http://www.christianbiblereference.org/jneighbr.htm

The more literal hebrew-based "love other jews/members of your tribe".
http://www.quora.com/What-does-neighbor-...y-neighbor
https://onedaringjew.wordpress.com/2011/...es-jewish/

The view that following God and obeying him is how you love thy neighbor.
https://www.icr.org/article/4175/

And finally, loving thy neighbor = not interfering with their lives even to the point of ignoring possible illegal activities.
http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Believer'...ighbor.htm




You can go through innumerable interpretations and call some incorrect, or twisting the verse to fit an agenda, or that you find them distasteful, but you'll find very few issues upon which there is a "Christian Response™" as if all Christians are unified.

[SteveII]

You can go through innumerable interpretations and call some incorrect, or twisting the verse to fit an agenda, or that you find them distasteful, but you'll find very few issues upon which there is a "Christian Response™" as if all Christians are unified.

Okay, point taken. I will preface my statements with "in my opinion, the correct Christian response is..." next time.