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RE: What IS good, and how do we determine it?
June 16, 2015 at 1:45 pm
(June 16, 2015 at 1:27 pm)Bad Wolf Wrote: 'Love me or burn in hell' That is what jesus is saying. That is not a choice. You are not choosing hell by not believing. You can't even choose what you believe. It's like if someone were to put a gun to your head and demand your wallet. If you refuse, you aren't choosing to be shot, you aren't committing suicide.
But it isn't love Him as a person. I mean, yes, we should strive to do that. But the main thing is to Love all that is goodness. To love love, to love goodness. Because God is love and goodness. And if you hate/reject love and goodness you will go to the only place where those things are not present. That's why I said not believing in God isn't necessarily automatic hell. It goes deeper than that.
"Of course, everyone will claim they respect someone who tries to speak the truth, but in reality, this is a rare quality. Most respect those who speak truths they agree with, and their respect for the speaking only extends as far as their realm of personal agreement. It is less common, almost to the point of becoming a saintly virtue, that someone truly respects and loves the truth seeker, even when their conclusions differ wildly."
-walsh
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RE: What IS good, and how do we determine it?
June 16, 2015 at 1:46 pm
(June 16, 2015 at 1:38 pm)Rhythm Wrote: The problem, Mystic?
The problem it's part of reason to believe in these things without doubt. And denying humanity can have spiritual knowledge to deny spiritual knowledge is circular reasoning.
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RE: What IS good, and how do we determine it?
June 16, 2015 at 1:52 pm
Who's that a problem for buddy, me, or your pile of straw?
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: What IS good, and how do we determine it?
June 16, 2015 at 1:53 pm
This thread is moving a mile a minute. Let me grab my 
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RE: What IS good, and how do we determine it?
June 16, 2015 at 1:54 pm
(This post was last modified: June 16, 2015 at 1:55 pm by Catholic_Lady.)
I had to skip over a few posts, most of which are things I've already talked about and explained numerous times, but looks like I'm finally caught up! 
(June 16, 2015 at 1:53 pm)LastPoet Wrote: This thread is moving a mile a minute. Let me grab my
Nice to see a fellow cat lover over here. I have six cats! 
"Of course, everyone will claim they respect someone who tries to speak the truth, but in reality, this is a rare quality. Most respect those who speak truths they agree with, and their respect for the speaking only extends as far as their realm of personal agreement. It is less common, almost to the point of becoming a saintly virtue, that someone truly respects and loves the truth seeker, even when their conclusions differ wildly."
-walsh
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RE: What IS good, and how do we determine it?
June 16, 2015 at 1:59 pm
(June 16, 2015 at 1:52 pm)Rhythm Wrote: Who's that a problem for buddy, me, or your pile of straw?
It's a problem for everybody.
I guess it goes further then that. Reason includes being good and it's part of goodness in ourselves to not deny spirituality/soul/God/cosmic judgement/metaphysical reality but affirm that knowledge. It's part of being truthful to oneself and God.
Our spiritual reality and link to God is a huge favor, and it's huge injustice to turn away from God.
Now not all Atheists I believe want to turn away from God, but I believe a lot do this out of injustice. What makes the matter worse is many gain a hatred or belittling towards believers for their faith in God, a faith that is a favor from God and a honorable sustenance from him.
The right of God is a greater right then all of humanity, and our link to him is to be honored and treasured. This sincerity to God is part of goodness.
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RE: What IS good, and how do we determine it?
June 16, 2015 at 2:00 pm
(June 16, 2015 at 1:15 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: Well first you have to understand that Hell is not a place you go to, kicking and screaming, where you will be burned and tortured by little men with horns. Hell is simply the only place where God is not present. And since God is goodness and love, Hell is a place where goodness and love are not present. That's why it is so bad.
The people who go to Hell are the people who reject goodness and love. For someone to avoid Hell, they don't necessarily have to believe in God. Maybe they were never taught about God. Maybe they just honestly could not bring themselves to believe He is real. This does not automatically mean they will go to Hell. What *does* automatically mean someone is going to Hell is that person's rejection of love and goodness, since God is love and goodness.
So the person who goes to Hell, a place where love and goodness are not present, is a person who *put themselves there* by choosing to reject love and goodness.
Oh, so not only are we condemning people to an eternity in pain with no way out, we're also telling them it is their choice? Please tell me you see how sick this idea is
Rejecting love and goodness? Can you explain more closely what does that mean and how does one go about doing that? Who really goes to hell?
Quote:There is nothing immoral about Jesus being the messenger of this news.
As for your thing about thoughts... thoughts certainly can be immoral if they are intentionally indulged upon. For example, I am married. If I *choose* to sit around and day dream all day about having sex with another man, I am doing something immoral. I am not talking about involuntarily having a thought pop in my head and then brushing it away. I am talking about actively day dreaming and fantasizing about other men. A more obvious example would be a man who is attracted to children. If an inappropriate thought about children involuntarily pops into his head, and he pushes it away, he did not do anything wrong. But if he makes the conciese decision to sit there and start fantasisincg about rapping children, he is doing something immoral.
Jesus was simply reminding us that yes, thoughts *can* be immoral.
Jesus said that to look lustfully at a woman is to commit adultery. He did not make the distinction you did, between voluntary and involuntary thoughts, he condemned the very impulse which is an inseparable part of a human being
This is precisely why I despise catholicism so much....but I may have personal bias. Btw, do you consider homosexuality a sin?
See what we mean? You added the distinction between conscious and involuntary thoughts, which was never mentioned originally; you already have an idea of what is good and are applying it to the scripture
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RE: What IS good, and how do we determine it?
June 16, 2015 at 2:02 pm
(This post was last modified: June 16, 2015 at 2:04 pm by FatAndFaithless.)
(June 16, 2015 at 1:59 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: Now not all Atheists I believe want to turn away from God,
For fuck's sake man, can you just stop trying to speak for any atheist except on the question "do you believe in god". Just about every single one of your posts in this thread is trying to speak for atheists, just stop it.
In every country and every age, the priest had been hostile to Liberty.
- Thomas Jefferson
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RE: What IS good, and how do we determine it?
June 16, 2015 at 2:03 pm
(This post was last modified: June 16, 2015 at 2:05 pm by robvalue.)
I'm not "rejecting love and goodness" or whatever, or rejecting god, I simply see no reason to see such a thing exists. If he exists, he's hiding from me, and if I'm to be punished for that then there's not much I can do about it.
I can't reject something I don't even believe exists. Like I said, all I have is people saying stuff about god, with no compelling arguments or evidence. He should be able to do better.
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RE: What IS good, and how do we determine it?
June 16, 2015 at 2:03 pm
(This post was last modified: June 16, 2015 at 2:03 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
(June 16, 2015 at 1:59 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: (June 16, 2015 at 1:52 pm)Rhythm Wrote: Who's that a problem for buddy, me, or your pile of straw?
It's a problem for everybody.
I guess it goes further then that. Reason includes being good and it's part of goodness in ourselves to not deny spirituality/soul/God/cosmic judgement/metaphysical reality but affirm that knowledge. It's part of being truthful to oneself and God.
Our spiritual reality and link to God is a huge favor, and it's huge injustice to turn away from God.
Now not all Atheists I believe want to turn away from God, but I believe a lot do this out of injustice. What makes the matter worse is many gain a hatred or belittling towards believers for their faith in God, a faith that is a favor from God and a honorable sustenance from him.
The right of God is a greater right then all of humanity, and our link to him is to be honored and treasured. This sincerity to God is part of goodness. Your fantasies are running all over your ability to reason. Still don;t see anything applicable to -this- atheist.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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