What IS good, and how do we determine it?

[Cyberman]

What is there to learn, atheism is not believing, even the dead can accomplish that.

GC

Are you suggesting that there are no theists in 'grave-holes'? Or that you can't or won't accomplish something that even the dead have managed?

[Catholic_Lady]

It's not rude, so much as unoriginal.

Sorry.

For what it's worth, I have never talked to an atheist about this, so I'm new to the subject and have never heard y'alls thoughts on it.

[robvalue]

Thanks so much everyone! We're having a lovely meal today at one of our favourite places

Here's my thoughts, for what they are worth! I would wager every atheist here would agree with me on at least the first point.

1) You are too good for Catholicism.

2) Your stated reason for belief that Jesus really was God is the success of the church and all its history. If you're interested, this is argument from incredulity fallacy: you can't imagine any other way for all this to happen other than Jesus really being God. The truth doesn't depend on our ability to imagine it. There is a very simple and much more likely alternative: people continued to think Jesus really was God throughout the church's history. As I'm sure you'll agree even now no one can prove there is a god or that Jesus was God, so the belief alone is enough to keep all of Christianity going. So it's no surprise that this could have always been the case, when proof was similarly impossible. If people really believed it, what difference would it have made if it was actually true or not?

3) A question I asked earlier: how would you feel if you were gay? Would you still love a God who insisted you repress who you are, even when gay sex hurts no one else? Not long ago a teenager killed herself because she couldn't handle how much God was disapproving of her just for being the way she was. Your gut reaction to gay sex being "off" is not surprising, since you're not gay All of sexual attraction is bizarre when viewed objectively. It only makes sense biologically, and to the individuals. Not wanting to do it yourself isn't a reason to stop others wanting to do it, that's sensible morality, so why would God stick his oar in and say otherwise?

[The Grand Nudger]

It's not rude, so much as unoriginal.

Sorry.

For what it's worth, I have never talked to an atheist about this, so I'm new to the subject and have never heard y'alls thoughts on it.

That's how you end up with these strange ideas about atheism....from -not- talking to atheists.  The "atheism is like a religion" bit is clearly considered brilliant in some circles, as often as we see it here, but for us, it's just tiresome and aggravating. I'm gonna level with you, while everyone is still enjoying the glow......I think you're bullshitting me in a very big way. I don't think you came to that comment yourself or by observation (and after all, you've just now claimed you've never talked to atheists about this.....the preamble offered before you dropped the turd makes -no sense- whatsoever in light of this statement). This was, essentially, scripted.

[Catholic_Lady]

It's not rude, so much as unoriginal.

Instead of saying 'Learn more about atheism', the last part of the caption in the third picture should say 'Learn more about Christianity's feeble excuses'.

Then perhaps believers would have one less reason to trot out the tiresome 'atheists act like they are part of a religion' talking point.

Any reason why "Christianity" in particular? There are thousands of religions out there. If anything, it seems like the one you'd be more concerned about is radical Islam...

I honestly have *never* heard that before nor did I know it was a talking point you guys have had to deal with. This is something I've just realized in the past year, as I've befriended an Atheist friend on facebook who is..... er... very outspoken, to say the least lol.

I apologize if this is something you guys feel badgered about so much.

[Longhorn]

I was raised catholic. I wish I was exaggerating.

I am really sorry you've had such a bad experience and I'm really sorry the Church has failed you.

Don't apologize for others. It hasn't 'failed' me. It hurt my brain.

[Catholic_Lady]

@ Catholic Lady:

What I'm trying to get at is - if you had never heard of xtianity in your whole life, let alone cat-hole-icism ( ), what would possibly lead you to think that Jesus was a god at all (leaving aside the very real question over his historical existence) and how would you make the connection to the Abrahamic god? What are you using as a source for determining what your god wants and how it thinks and feels?

As someone who had never before even heard of Christianity? I honestly don't know. I cannot imagine never having heard of it before, since I grew up with it. I don't know what my reaction would be or what, if anything, would get me to believe in it if I was hearing about it for the very first time in my life. It's kind of something that has developed for years as I've grown and the more I learn about it the more I'm convinced by all of it. Like I said in my last post, it was never just one magical source, so I don't think any one thing, if anything would get me to believe in it under your hypothetical circumstances. I see it as something that would take years to develop, and I can't even explain everything that would have to go into it for the belief/understanding to happen.

---

Just to clarify, I wasn't referring to abstinence only programs, I was referring to abstinence itself. Assuming you have all the right parts intact, not having sex is the only for sure way to avoid pregnancy. You can't get pregnant if you don't have sex.

Tell that to Mary. 

Hahaha!! Love it!

[Crossless2.0]

Instead of saying 'Learn more about atheism', the last part of the caption in the third picture should say 'Learn more about Christianity's feeble excuses'.

Then perhaps believers would have one less reason to trot out the tiresome 'atheists act like they are part of a religion' talking point.

Any reason why "Christianity" in particular? There are thousands of religions out there. If anything, it seems like the one you'd be more concerned about is radical Islam...

I mentioned Christianity in particular because the picture in question was obviously taken in a church.  Crosses aren't much of a thing in mosques.  If it makes you feel any better, I'm an across-the-board, equal opportunity foe of all Abrahamic religions -- especially radical Islam.

[Catholic_Lady]

Sorry.

For what it's worth, I have never talked to an atheist about this, so I'm new to the subject and have never heard y'alls thoughts on it.

That's how you end up with these strange ideas about atheism....from -not- talking to atheists.  The "atheism is like a religion" bit is clearly considered brilliant in some circles, as often as we see it here, but for us, it's just tiresome and aggravating.  I'm gonna level with you, while everyone is still enjoying the glow......I think you're bullshitting me in a very big way.  I don't think you came to that comment yourself or by observation (and after all, you've just now claimed you've never talked to atheists about this.....the preamble offered before you dropped the turd makes -no sense- whatsoever in light of this statement).  This was, essentially, scripted.

Rhythm, I am sorry you feel that way.

I promise you the thoughts I expressed on that post came entirely from me and my observation in the past 7ish or so months. That's approximately how long ago I met and facebook friended a lady I met here in Texas. She's a very outspoken atheist on facebook and is always posting about atheism and posting links to blogs and group pages and stuff. I never brought it up with her, but the observation I made that atheism seems to be treated by some atheists like a religion, is not something I knew other people had ever even thought of before.

When you told me this was not original earlier tonight, my first thought was... "Wow, really? Others have thought of this and made this observation before too?"

Obviously all you have is my word and that's all I can give you. I'd just hate for you to think I'm being deceitful and lying to you. Because that's just not cool.

I have 2 other very dear friends who are atheists whom I have been friends for forever and they have never given me that impression before. They simply just don't believe in God and that's it. So I know it's probably just a minority.

---

Any reason why "Christianity" in particular? There are thousands of religions out there. If anything, it seems like the one you'd be more concerned about is radical Islam...

I mentioned Christianity in particular because the picture in question was obviously taken in a church.  Crosses aren't much of a thing in mosques.  If it makes you feel any better, I'm an across-the-board, equal opportunity foe of all Abrahamic religions -- especially radical Islam.

Oh, haha. Gotcha.

[The Grand Nudger]

No, Cath, it's not a minority of atheists in some "religion of atheism", it is plain and simple bullshit sold -by believers- about atheists out of pure frustration.  Congratulations, you can count yourself among that crowd now. If you want me to stop thinking that you're bullshitting me, stop bullshitting me?  That last little shit and run convo we had was my final straw, what can I say?