What IS good, and how do we determine it?

[abaris]

In the context of this discussion, if you don't want to die of AIDS or catch a disease, then don't have sex with people to whom you are not married.

You ignorant little twat. You know nothing about the regions in question. You know nothing about anything as it turns out, you just like to run your mouth. But when someone calls you out on one of your fundamentally ignorant posts, you pull the copping out manoeuvre and move to take a shit in another thread.

[Randy Carson]

Through our sexuality, God allows us to participate in His creation of new life.

It may come as a surprise, but we're not the only species having sex.

Agreed, and I should have been more specific.

Man is created in God's image. Animals and plants are not. Therefore, when we participate in the creation of life, we are creating something that is in the image and likeness of God, and we're the only species doing that.

Also, it might be noted that it is not generally thought that plants and animals have eternal souls. Another distinction.

[The Grand Nudger]

I think you may have that one backwards...and that handily explains why -your- god is the person that he is..............

[abaris]

Man is created in God's image. Animals and plants are not. Therefore, when we participate in the creation of life, we are creating something that is in the image and likeness of God, and we're the only species doing that.

Hey, we can't really be dumb
If we're just following god's orders
Hey, let's get serious...
God knows what he's doin'
He wrote this book here
An' the book says:
He made us all to be just like him,"
So...
If we're dumb...
Then God is dumb...
(an' maybe even a little ugly on the side)

Frank Zappa and nothing to add.

[Randy Carson]

Oh I know, I know.....Randy, it's my poor understanding of god that leads me to be confused regarding whether or not it's kosher to off some guy because he didn't want to seal the deal with his brothers wife.  The answer is so plainly obvious... that god is good -especially- when he's smiting the shit out of folks like Onan.  You know what though....you don't actually need to tell me any of this..I have the same understanding of the story as you do.  It's your Girl, Catholic.....who you need to correct on this count.  

Let me use a poor analogy.

Right now, some form of avian flu is spreading through the poultry farms of our country, and this disease has the potential to decimate the chicken population that we depend on for a lot of our food.

How do the farmers stop the spread of the disease?

You see where this is going, don't you?

So, if God stopped the spread of a spiritual disease among His people by culling out those infected members of the tribes of Israel, then you can say two things with certainty:

1. The people killed deserved the punishment they received (God is just).
2. The rest of the people were saved from death which may have come if the disobedience had spread (God is merciful).

Tough for those killed. Love for those spared.

Tough. Love.

[Cato]

Frank Zappa and nothing to add.

"Ram it, ram it, ram it..."

[Randy Carson]

How does God hate gays, Pyrrho? Or rather, why do you believe he does?

[pocaracas]

Their beliefs are simple: there is an uber-powerful god thing that created this whole Universe and put us here on Earth as some sort of personality test so he could pick the best to be his homies in what we call the eternal afterlife, in whatever form of Universe that god thing resides.
In the meantime, since he saw that humans were misbehaving with each other, he impregnated a human girl and the kid that came forth became Jesus... who walked the Earth... the whole of Judaea... teaching his very own and somewhat newish interpretation of the old writings concerning his dad.
Through some miracle, decades after the Jesus bloke goes away and becomes one third of the original god, someone put down those teaching into writing and they're mostly trustworthy.

None of which is relevant to the discussion at hand, none of which supports the argument to natural law offered, all of which supports the divine will, which is the very -basis- of their condemnation of contraception, regardless of how uncomfortable that makes any catholic here, arguing some softer point.  God doesn't like it, that's why it's immoral, end of.  

Of course it isn't relevant!
The morality then comes from each person's background... for the most part, they're all similar, but there are a few differences here and there.
And, as far as I'm aware, catholics tend not to peek into the bible... except for Randy.

When was the last time you saw a god killing someone?

When was the last time -anyone- saw that?  Doesn't stop them from using it as the premise to their moral truths, the certainty of which depending upon the assertion that it -did happen-.

In their view, "some of it" did happen... some of it is just allegory and the god entity is thrown in to make it edgy. And most catholics just don't care about the OT stuff and think that JC laid out the required rules... anything else is for their own interpretation. Or just don't think and accept what the heads of the church say.
They say not to have sex before marriage, so they don't.... or do and pretend they didn't, unless they hit a snag like pregnancy or STDs...

In the case of sex before marriage, it's clearly a rule that goes against nature and clearly fails more often than if it is allowed with the extra information concerning all the available methods to prevent pregnancies and STDs.
The fact that the church leaders continue to bang on the same key only tells us that they are clearly not getting any directions from any god interested in the most happiness for the most people.... and they never have, based on the fact that this is the same rule from 2000 years ago.

[Randy Carson]

He's God. We're not. Some people have a harder time with that than others.

Do you actually believe you're leaving an impression?

I mean, I could just as well say, he's Bigfoot, we're not for all the "evidence" you're presenting. You're packing bible quotes as if there was not tommorow, but as far as we are concerned, you're firing blanks.

Could be.

[The Grand Nudger]

Oh I know, I know.....Randy, it's my poor understanding of god that leads me to be confused regarding whether or not it's kosher to off some guy because he didn't want to seal the deal with his brothers wife.  The answer is so plainly obvious... that god is good -especially- when he's smiting the shit out of folks like Onan.  You know what though....you don't actually need to tell me any of this..I have the same understanding of the story as you do.  It's your Girl, Catholic.....who you need to correct on this count.  

Let me use a poor analogy.

Right now, some form of avian flu is spreading through the poultry farms of our country, and this disease has the potential to decimate the chicken population that we depend on for a lot of our food.

How do the farmers stop the spread of the disease?

You see where this is going, don't you?

So, if God stopped the spread of a spiritual disease among His people by culling out those infected members of the tribes of Israel, then you can say two things with certainty:

1. The people killed deserved the punishment they received (God is just).
2. The rest of the people were saved from death which may have come if the disobedience had spread (God is merciful).

Tough for those killed. Love for those spared.

Tough. Love.

What a morally upright use of his limitless power......................and it's comforting to know that he's such a competent manager of his human chattel. I'm appreciative, though, that at least one catholic in this thread has the balls to say that killing a guy for his sperm hitting the ground is morally righteous, is just. I wonder, though, if you'd be willing to subject yourself to my standing behind you with a sledgehammer, waiting for you to trip up on -just that thing-......did you know that my name actually means "Hammer of God"?......We could turn that into a job title and gods will would be done through this lowly, non human sinners poor frame.

That's just -got- to tickle your cathol....whadda ya say?