The Newly Departed thread: announcements (departures)

[Edwardo Piet]

I've already been missing you, Rob. And now I'm going to miss you even more.

And I obviously can't speak for after I left Staff, but you were a fantastic moderator for the entire time I stayed on Staff.

I know we had our disagreements too but the good times were good times and I'm not going to retroactively delete them in a million years, that's not me: No, I will cherish them.

So I'm gonna miss you. Take care of yourself and stay strong.

All the best.

[LadyForCamus]

I had to make this one last post, to thank everyone for being so kind, and to
apologise for any upset.

I made my position clear in the staff area, I feel everyone deserves to know what it is.

At the very least, I think all private conversations between members of the forum should stay private, whether they occurred by forum PM or elsewhere. This is basic privacy for me. When I realised this loophole in the rules, and pointed it out, it made me feel physically sick that I was opposed on this. I'm allowed to just air dirty laundry, or slander people, as long as I refer to off-forum chat. Why? Why would we protect this behaviour?

It's very simple: if you're discussing a private conversation, you're either breaking the confidentially of another forum member, or you're misquoting them and putting words in their mouth. Either way round is very serious, so if it's anything of a personal/private nature, it doesn't actually matter whether it was said or not. For this reason, being able to confirm it by looking at a forum PM is irrelevant.

I made this position clear, and that I can't compromise it. Yet here we are, the staff do not want private conversations kept private. It's too much for me. It makes no difference where it took place because the staff aren't going to publicly confirm whether a member really did say something highly personal to the forum at large, are they? So from the point of view of every regular member, it's just the same.

I gave the staff plenty of time to be reasonable about this and to work out a new rule. No rule has been forthcoming. If one was made, I could come back. I hope everyone can understand that putting free speech ahead of privacy like this is just too much for me to bear. I can't be a part of a forum with such flawed basic values, it hurts me too much.

I do hope to hear that this position is reconsidered in the future. This will be my goodbye until such a time. I love you guys and I'm sorry.

I'm so sorry it came to this, Rob.      You have always been a man of your principles as far as I could tell since I've known you here, so I totally understand you standing up for them now.  Without having any idea of the specifics of what happened it's hard to say anything, but I agree with these basic principles you have mentioned.  I  badly hope that staff can come to an arrangement at some point that would allow you to return without feeling you are compromising your values.  Until then, I will miss you dearly.     It's a big loss for AF as far as I'm concerned.

[brewer]

I had to make this one last post, to thank everyone for being so kind, and to
apologise for any upset.

I made my position clear in the staff area, I feel everyone deserves to know what it is.

At the very least, I think all private conversations between members of the forum should stay private, whether they occurred by forum PM or elsewhere. This is basic privacy for me. When I realised this loophole in the rules, and pointed it out, it made me feel physically sick that I was opposed on this. I'm allowed to just air dirty laundry, or slander people, as long as I refer to off-forum chat. Why? Why would we protect this behaviour?

It's very simple: if you're discussing a private conversation, you're either breaking the confidentially of another forum member, or you're misquoting them and putting words in their mouth. Either way round is very serious, so if it's anything of a personal/private nature, it doesn't actually matter whether it was said or not. For this reason, being able to confirm it by looking at a forum PM is irrelevant.

I made this position clear, and that I can't compromise it. Yet here we are, the staff do not want private conversations kept private. It's too much for me. It makes no difference where it took place because the staff aren't going to publicly confirm whether a member really did say something highly personal to the forum at large, are they? So from the point of view of every regular member, it's just the same.

I gave the staff plenty of time to be reasonable about this and to work out a new rule. No rule has been forthcoming. If one was made, I could come back. I hope everyone can understand that putting free speech ahead of privacy like this is just too much for me to bear. I can't be a part of a forum with such flawed basic values, it hurts me too much.

I do hope to hear that this position is reconsidered in the future. This will be my goodbye until such a time. I love you guys and I'm sorry.

Good principle Rob, one I'm asked to be held to IRL all the time, not so much here but it has been done. Now I'm gonna play devils advocate for a bit. Don't feel obligated to respond.

If the private conversation/information released to the forum does not offend the other party I don't see it as a problem. It becomes a problem at the point of offense. The offended then needs to report the incident and appropriate action taken. To make a rule excluding all private conversation may become very cumbersome. But then I don't know what your proposed rule was, may be it was in a form that was easily applied. 

Nothing to be sorry for.

[robvalue]

Well... I'm back!

This is confusing. I'm not sure what to think anymore. Apparently the rule has always been how I wanted it to be. But this is not in line with my memory, or how the rules have been applied in my experience. I'm just not gonna worry about it as I'm not staff anymore.

Anyhow, it seems that privacy does matter to the forum, and so with a sigh of relief I can return! I've lost my staff status which is fine, I needed to step down anyway. I think it was burning me out. It was an amazing ride and I'm proud to have been a part of it.

I missed you guys and I'm glad this feels like home again!

Brewer: Oh yes, I agree with what you say. It's not a strict principle to be applied thoughtlessly. Some conversations will be so mundane that it's of no importance, or it's something that doesn't bother anyone. This would be to protect people in instances where confidence has been broken over something that had no business being made public.

[robvalue]

Alright, well. I should say a bit more here.

I left because being on the site was making me feel physically sick and it was going to affect my mental health, due to how I perceived the situation. I realise now I almost certainly did not have an accurate picture in my mind. But I had no choice but to leave. I respect people here too much to just slink away without saying anything. It wasn't a case of running away, it was a case of looking after my health. In some ways I'm strong, in others I'm very vulnerable and I could easily spiral into the depths of depression.

I agree that I handled things badly in the staff area. I was extremely emotional, for lots of reasons. Mostly reasons I can't share. I was reaching the end of my tether, I see that now. I was mostly making valid points which I still stand by. I started the discussion about these, but it began in the worst possible way for me, coming up against firm resistance which I found unreasonable. In my uneven state, I took this as being representative. I was feeling ill already by this stage and unable to read much more of the discussion.

So I handled it all really badly, I admit. I should have listened to more people. I should have waited longer. But waiting was making me ill too, I had to tie it off.

The rule I explicitly complained about here is one I'm surprised there even needs to be a rule for, and I don't know how it can't have already been established. But again I should have handled this better. I was outraged people were disagreeing with me about it in the staff area. If in fact they were not, and everyone wanted this to be a rule and just needed time, then I've been a total wanker about it and misread the situation. I have conversations in my mind where people opposed this point, but I can't verify them now.

So I'm sorry again to everyone that I handled everything pretty badly. I'm not sorry I made this particular rule a focus for the forum, but the way I went about it was shit. My tone towards the staff was unwarranted.

I want to particularly apologise to Brewer, for apologising too much. I express much regret that British people are bred this way, and I have been custom buit to be on the more extreme end. I'm sorry about that also. I'm sorry I apologise too much. My conscience weighs heavier on me, whatever actions I take, than any judgement or punishment another could give. So my apologies again for wasting your time with apologies.

[Minimalist]

Go have a drink and relax, bro.

"Ego te absolvo."   ( Really, the pope said I could do that.  I have a letter around here somewhere.)

[robvalue]

Thanks

I will try to remember my time on the staff by the previous vast majority of it, where I was extremely happy with what I did for the forum. I was not myself at the end, for various reasons.

I feel a relief at no longer being staff. I'm not mentally up to it at the moment. I never thought I could even do it in the first place! Seriously, I didn't. I wasn't going to accept even if asked. But I'm very proud that I have been a part of it, and that I gave it my best shot.

[robvalue]

Even though I behaved like a twat, I did highlight a lot of problems with the rules before I kicked myself out of the staff room. So I'm glad I did that, as my points are valid even if flinging poo isn't. I hope the staff continue to work on them.

A lot of people asked questions in this thread, if they are still unanswered feel free to repeat them or PM me. I remember c172 asked about miscommunication; no it wasn't your fault It was between me and the staff. The things that was coming was about the ONI rule and as such not much related to what I had to say.

[brewer]

I want to particularly apologise to Brewer, for apologising too much. I express much regret that British people are bred this way, and I have been custom buit to be on the more extreme end. I'm sorry about that also. I'm sorry I apologise too much. My conscience weighs heavier on me, whatever actions I take, than any judgement or punishment another could give. So my apologies again for wasting your time with apologies.

You must be back. Unless you think that somehow I'm suppose to take this seriously. Then you're still out there.

[robvalue]

I'm back baby