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RE: Request from a Christian.
January 1, 2017 at 5:11 pm
(January 1, 2017 at 5:05 pm)Dragonspride1995 Wrote: (January 1, 2017 at 5:01 pm)Astonished Wrote: Oh, don't be shy, this I've got to hear. I mean, who am I to judge if someone was duped by something intended to impress illiterate stone-age peasants?
Notice I never claimed superiority over you? I'm not being shy, i'm saying on topic.
Except when you condemned me as a miserable sinner deserving of eternal hellfire, just like you except that you have the solution for avoiding that and I'm not privy to that little secret. Seems like one of those positions is naturally superior to the other.
Religions were invented to impress and dupe illiterate, superstitious stone-age peasants. So in this modern, enlightened age of information, what's your excuse? Or are you saying with all your advantages, you were still tricked as easily as those early humans?
---
There is no better way to convey the least amount of information in the greatest amount of words than to try explaining your religious views.
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RE: Request from a Christian.
January 1, 2017 at 5:11 pm
(This post was last modified: January 1, 2017 at 5:13 pm by Catholic_Lady.)
(January 1, 2017 at 5:05 pm)Dragonspride1995 Wrote: (January 1, 2017 at 5:01 pm)Astonished Wrote: Oh, don't be shy, this I've got to hear. I mean, who am I to judge if someone was duped by something intended to impress illiterate stone-age peasants?
Notice I never claimed superiority over you? I'm not being shy, i'm saying on topic.
He is being hostile and rude and condescending. I would just ignore. You came here for genuine respectful discussion, not for someone to be a dick to you for no reason.
"Of course, everyone will claim they respect someone who tries to speak the truth, but in reality, this is a rare quality. Most respect those who speak truths they agree with, and their respect for the speaking only extends as far as their realm of personal agreement. It is less common, almost to the point of becoming a saintly virtue, that someone truly respects and loves the truth seeker, even when their conclusions differ wildly."
-walsh
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RE: Request from a Christian.
January 1, 2017 at 5:14 pm
(January 1, 2017 at 5:04 pm)pocaracas Wrote: (January 1, 2017 at 9:45 am)Dragonspride1995 Wrote: Well I studied the Bible, Looked at the answers it gave.
You studied an old text that talks about a lot of things. Some agree with present-day morality, some don't and should be read within the context of the time when it was written.
I often have this doubt, why, if there ever only was a single god, why did mankind come to believe in different gods? Why did mankind come to accept "teachings" from prophets and oracles of those other gods? So much so that it had to be encoded in that bible that people should not go for other gods! Truly amazing!
Also, when you say "Bible", maybe you should specify that you are mostly referring to the New Testament, huh?
The Bible starts at Genesis and goes through some messed up stuff.
The NT is a bit at the end, right?
(January 1, 2017 at 9:45 am)Dragonspride1995 Wrote: All my parents did was teach me what the Bible said, Then I made the choice to come to Christ my self. Right, right... 
Your high-school level psychology is failing you.
Here's something that may, if you let it, teach you something: Michael Shermer's "The Believing Brain: From Ghosts and Gods to Politics and Conspiracies---How We Construct Beliefs and Reinforce Them as Truths"
In essence, can you really say that you made that choice of "coming to Christ" by yourself? Were you not primed to believe it, like most people are, who are brought up by religious parents?
Monkey see, monkey do!
(January 1, 2017 at 9:45 am)Dragonspride1995 Wrote: Then the events of my life supported my beliefs and well here I am today.
Of course they did.
Remarkably, supernatural events seem to only happen to people who are already believers.
Or maybe it's that all those supernatural events are just faulty interpretations of natural events, huh?
In my view, as long as the natural cannot be ruled out, the supernatural must take a backseat and be attributed a very very very very low probability of being the true description of events.
(January 1, 2017 at 9:45 am)Dragonspride1995 Wrote: I don't give any credence to the indoctrination argument because kids are indoctrinated to everything math, science, scepticism, philosophy. Etc.
It's not the same thing.
Math, science and other things can be verified, follow a logical path, from sound (or as sound as we can make them) premises.
Belief in gods is nothing like this. It's just the psychological state of belief... with some strange mental events interpreted as actions of gods and/or demons, instead of being seen for what they are: mental states.
(January 1, 2017 at 9:45 am)Dragonspride1995 Wrote: My parents knew that I had the come to the choice on my own, thats what the Bible teaches. Any Christian who says otherwise is a Hypocrite. hehe... check this out:
https://home.snu.edu/~hculbert/ages.htm
I guess 85% of US christians are hypocrites, then... That's a sizable non-negligible portion of the population!
(January 1, 2017 at 9:45 am)Dragonspride1995 Wrote: As for everything else, atheists have a way with explaining away our personal experiences. No... it's just that, as I said above, as long as there's a possible natural explanation, that one takes precedence over any unnatural explanation.
(January 1, 2017 at 9:45 am)Dragonspride1995 Wrote: In this instance I am a bigot because I put more faith in the Bible then someone in a lab coat with a piece of paper saying that he is smarter then everyone else. That's the crux of it.
I'm not sure you understand all the work that goes into having that "piece of paper". And it doesn't say that he's smarter than everyone else. It says that he's studied hard and understands a particular field better than the grand majority of humans.
Why do you put more faith into a text written long ago, instead of a text written by someone who has spent his life studying a particular aspect of Nature?
Granted, if that scientist is talking about something for which he has not studied, nor practiced, then you are more than welcome to criticize him! Heck, even within his field, you can try that... but will most likely fail or ridicule yourself.
What's so objectively special about the Bible?
(January 1, 2017 at 9:45 am)Dragonspride1995 Wrote: But we are off topic I want to know about your negative experiences with Christians.
Ah, yes... I tend to do that... sorry! 
Negative experience?
Meh, married one... then, she became hyper-religious... Opus Dei member and all... now, I don't like the thought of living the rest of my hopefully still long life next to someone like that. The tale that isn't over yet...
You know, The more I try to take the argument back to the original post, the further you guys get. I don't want to ignore your posts. But I would like to stay on topic.
After all that, yes I can say that I chose to put my faith in my God. My parents taught me the contents of the Bible. I made the choice to believe in it. And lets just say I have much more trust in my parents then a guy in a lab coat with a piece of paper that says he is smarter then everyone else. But I digress back to the original point of the topic.
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RE: Request from a Christian.
January 1, 2017 at 5:15 pm
(January 1, 2017 at 5:11 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: (January 1, 2017 at 5:05 pm)Dragonspride1995 Wrote: Notice I never claimed superiority over you? I'm not being shy, i'm saying on topic.
He is being hostile and rude. I would just ignore.
If you can't grasp how loaded a lot of religious terms are and when you inappropriately apply them to people without due consideration, then there's no point in any further discussion. And in a thread where you actually wonder what Christians do to piss people off, no less. The irony could be forged into Mjolnir.
Religions were invented to impress and dupe illiterate, superstitious stone-age peasants. So in this modern, enlightened age of information, what's your excuse? Or are you saying with all your advantages, you were still tricked as easily as those early humans?
---
There is no better way to convey the least amount of information in the greatest amount of words than to try explaining your religious views.
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RE: Request from a Christian.
January 1, 2017 at 5:19 pm
(This post was last modified: January 1, 2017 at 5:26 pm by Dragonspride1995.)
(January 1, 2017 at 5:11 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: (January 1, 2017 at 5:05 pm)Dragonspride1995 Wrote: Notice I never claimed superiority over you? I'm not being shy, i'm saying on topic.
He is being hostile and rude and condescending. I would just ignore. You came here for genuine respectful discussion, not for someone to be a dick to you for no reason.
Wouldn't you call it rude to ignore someone? Evil for evil - eye for an eye, and all that?
(January 1, 2017 at 5:10 pm)Stimbo Wrote: (January 1, 2017 at 5:00 pm)Dragonspride1995 Wrote: Yes, Atheists see them selves as sceptics, with the ability to dissociate themselves away from a belief in order to adequately question it. As for what I percieve about atheists. Well I'll keep those to my self as they are not the purpose of the book, nor the conversation.
Well, now the disingenuousness of your motive is exposed. Or are you seriously going to equivocate peoples' childhood experiences with the opinions of their adult selves?
What exactly do you believe you have exposed? I have my beliefs yes. Yes I believe differently then you. Yes I am biased against atheists, I have admitted that time and time again. My motive remains the same. Show Christians how their actions is effecting atheists. Proving to them, using their own method that there is a problem within the church that needs to be fixed.
(January 1, 2017 at 5:15 pm)Astonished Wrote: (January 1, 2017 at 5:11 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: He is being hostile and rude. I would just ignore.
If you can't grasp how loaded a lot of religious terms are and when you inappropriately apply them to people without due consideration, then there's no point in any further discussion. And in a thread where you actually wonder what Christians do to piss people off, no less. The irony could be forged into Mjolnir.
Ok then, thank you for your input.
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RE: Request from a Christian.
January 1, 2017 at 5:29 pm
(January 1, 2017 at 5:19 pm)Dragonspride1995 Wrote: (January 1, 2017 at 5:11 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: He is being hostile and rude and condescending. I would just ignore. You came here for genuine respectful discussion, not for someone to be a dick to you for no reason.
Wouldn't you call it rude to ignore someone? Evil for evil - eye for an eye, and all that?
(January 1, 2017 at 5:10 pm)Stimbo Wrote: Well, now the disingenuousness of your motive is exposed. Or are you seriously going to equivocate peoples' childhood experiences with the opinions of their adult selves?
What exactly do you believe you have exposed? I have my beliefs yes. Yes I believe differently then you. Yes I am biased against atheists, I have admitted that time and time again. My motive remains the same. Show Christians how their actions is effecting atheists. Proving to them, using their own method that there is a problem within the church that needs to be fixed.
No at all. If someone is being rude and condescending to you, paying them no attention while they do so is a perfectly reasonable and moral response. But if you want to keep engaging him, that's your call. Just giving my suggestion. Do with it as you will.
"Of course, everyone will claim they respect someone who tries to speak the truth, but in reality, this is a rare quality. Most respect those who speak truths they agree with, and their respect for the speaking only extends as far as their realm of personal agreement. It is less common, almost to the point of becoming a saintly virtue, that someone truly respects and loves the truth seeker, even when their conclusions differ wildly."
-walsh
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RE: Request from a Christian.
January 1, 2017 at 5:31 pm
Honestly, I can’t say there’s clear cut difference between the way they treat me now and the way they did when I was a Christian. Or even the way they treat one another. The Christians I’ve known treat one another like crap and then demand forgiveness. They will sic god on you. “God won’t bless you if you don’t forgive me.” “Satan is the accuser of the brethren.”
Christians who act like this and then hide behind the cross and grace of god, wonder why I laugh when they try to tell me how Jesus has changed their lives.
The god who allows children to be raped out of respect for the free will choice of the rapist, but punishes gay men for engaging in mutually consensual sex couldn't possibly be responsible for an intelligently designed universe.
I may defend your right to free speech, but i won't help you pass out flyers.
Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities.
--Voltaire
Nietzsche isn't dead. How do I know he lives? He lives in my mind.
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RE: Request from a Christian.
January 1, 2017 at 5:36 pm
(January 1, 2017 at 5:29 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: (January 1, 2017 at 5:19 pm)Dragonspride1995 Wrote: Wouldn't you call it rude to ignore someone? Evil for evil - eye for an eye, and all that?
What exactly do you believe you have exposed? I have my beliefs yes. Yes I believe differently then you. Yes I am biased against atheists, I have admitted that time and time again. My motive remains the same. Show Christians how their actions is effecting atheists. Proving to them, using their own method that there is a problem within the church that needs to be fixed.
No at all. If someone is being rude and condescending to you, paying them no attention while they do so is a perfectly reasonable and moral response. But if you want to keep engaging him, that's your call. Just giving my suggestion. Do with it as you will.
Well thank you for your suggestion. I'll think it over.
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RE: Request from a Christian.
January 1, 2017 at 5:55 pm
(January 1, 2017 at 5:19 pm)Dragonspride1995 Wrote: (January 1, 2017 at 5:10 pm)Stimbo Wrote: Well, now the disingenuousness of your motive is exposed. Or are you seriously going to equivocate peoples' childhood experiences with the opinions of their adult selves?
What exactly do you believe you have exposed? I have my beliefs yes. Yes I believe differently then you. Yes I am biased against atheists, I have admitted that time and time again. My motive remains the same. Show Christians how their actions is effecting atheists. Proving to them, using their own method that there is a problem within the church that needs to be fixed.
Whatever you say. I'm not chasing this rabbit. We are the sum of what we express online, so people can decide for themselves.
At the age of five, Skagra decided emphatically that God did not exist. This revelation tends to make most people in the universe who have it react in one of two ways - with relief or with despair. Only Skagra responded to it by thinking, 'Wait a second. That means there's a situation vacant.'
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RE: Request from a Christian.
January 1, 2017 at 6:04 pm
(This post was last modified: January 1, 2017 at 6:08 pm by Dragonspride1995.)
(January 1, 2017 at 5:55 pm)Stimbo Wrote: (January 1, 2017 at 5:19 pm)Dragonspride1995 Wrote: What exactly do you believe you have exposed? I have my beliefs yes. Yes I believe differently then you. Yes I am biased against atheists, I have admitted that time and time again. My motive remains the same. Show Christians how their actions is effecting atheists. Proving to them, using their own method that there is a problem within the church that needs to be fixed.
Whatever you say. I'm not chasing this rabbit. We are the sum of what we express online, so people can decide for themselves.
Fully agree.
(January 1, 2017 at 5:31 pm)Rhondazvous Wrote: Honestly, I can’t say there’s clear cut difference between the way they treat me now and the way they did when I was a Christian. Or even the way they treat one another. The Christians I’ve known treat one another like crap and then demand forgiveness. They will sic god on you. “God won’t bless you if you don’t forgive me.” “Satan is the accuser of the brethren.”
Christians who act like this and then hide behind the cross and grace of god, wonder why I laugh when they try to tell me how Jesus has changed their lives.
Yea I've witnessed this myself. Especially from my mom. Its a kinda manipulation tactic isn't it.
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