(August 17, 2015 at 11:07 am)MysticKnight Wrote:(August 17, 2015 at 6:01 am)Neimenovic Wrote: Ok...I'm not about to fall asleep anymore but it doesn't make much more sense now.
There is a whole lot of 'I believe' and 'it seems to me'. I understand, but why? What makes you think that? Why does this first cause need to have the attributes of your god?
I guess I can see where you're coming from with praiseworthy, but that's already a bit of a jump. So let me rewind a little.
I'm speaking specifically from the angle of the cosmological argument, the uncaused cause. For the purpose of this discussion, I'm ignoring the logical problems with that and I accept that the universe was created by a first cause. What I'm asking for is a step by step explanation of how to get from 'a first cause' to Allah. First, how do you figure it's conscious? Why is it impossible for the universe to be created by a first cause that was not?
This is pretty much the same thing Chad was doing-ascribing some of his god's attributes to this creator by default. I don't see why, and what is the basis of that. It doesn't follow.
I told you I took the assumption that God's Name/Face/Connection exists. That we do have knowledge of Him to a degree through that.
You cannot operate rationally by simply assuming your favored position is true. People can't just assume that Bigfoot is real, alien abductions really happen or that politicians are honest. That is an inherently illogical belief structure.
There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide mankind that cannot be achieved as well or better through secular means.
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