(August 20, 2015 at 11:04 am)lkingpinl Wrote: I am not taking it out of context.
Yeah you are.
Quote: Hawking is indeed saying this universe is fine tuned. He explains in detail why.
Where? You really are reading a totally different piece of writing to what I am. I am honestly bewildered how you come to that conclusion, how anyone can, when his entire point is about how the universe does not need a creator and is not designed. It's like me saying "god is an asshole" and you saying "so you acknowledge god is real", when you already know I'm an atheist and everything I've said prior would indicate I don't believe god is real.
Quote: However, he comes to a conclusion to explain it away:
"Our universe seems to be one of many, each with different laws. That multiverse idea is not a notion invented to account for the miracle of fine tuning. It is a consequence predicted by many theories in modern cosmology. If it is true it reduces the strong anthropic principle to the weak one, putting the fine tunings of physical law on the same footing as the environmental factors, for it means that our cosmic habitat—now the entire observable universe—is just one of many.
Each universe has many possible histories and many possible states. Only a very few would allow creatures like us to exist. Although we are puny and insignificant on the scale of the cosmos, this makes us in a sense the lords of creation."
So he has a theory that this universe is one of many infinite possible universes and because of that, the fine-tuning is irrelevant. But its a theory. It is not fact. Also I agree with him that IF the multiverse theory were true then yes it would reduce the fine-tuning for life to be a simple matter of chance/inevitability. But multiverse theory is far from proven. Let's stick to just this universe. It is fine tuned for the existence of our lives. If there are multiverses then we simply hit the lottery of all of the perfect properties for us to be here. If you want to believe in infinite parallel/alternate universes, that is your prerogative, I do not.
How can you interpret this so stupendously wrongly?
You say the multiverse theory is used to explain away this 'miracle of fine tuning', but can't seem to grasp very basic English stating otherwise. It's not used to explain away fine tuning of any sort. Can you even read the following?
Quote:That multiverse idea is not a notion invented to account for the miracle of fine tuning.
I wouldn't mind but you quoted it yourself.
I guess by your logic, the fact that this article uses the term 'miracle of fine tuning' also means that miracles are believed by Hawking. Right?
In order for him to 'explain away' fine tuning, he'd have to believe it to be fine tuned in the first place. He simply doesn't. Does not. Never said so and I doubt he ever will. Just like how you can't get the irony in him calling his book "the Grand Design", you can't get why he'd talk about fine-tuning in the way he does.
I come back to the earlier quote from the article:
Quote:Many people would like us to use these coincidences as evidence of the work of God. The idea that the universe was designed to accommodate mankind appears in theologies and mythologies dating from thousands of years ago. In Western culture the Old Testament contains the idea of providential design, but the traditional Christian viewpoint was also greatly influenced by Aristotle, who believed "in an intelligent natural world that functions according to some deliberate design."
That is not the answer of modern science.
You need to take the entire article into context. Yes, the multiverse theory is an explanation of why the universe appears to be fine-tuned, but there is still no real insinuation that the universe actually is fine-tuned. The whole point of the article in the first place is that there are explanations for the way things are other than god. Everything Hawking says, every point, both in his books and lectures supports this and flies in the face of your flagrant misrepresentations.
The very fact you would try to use Hawking, or anything he's said to support your notion that the universe is designed, is more than a little insulting to our intelligence.