(August 24, 2015 at 8:34 pm)Whateverist the White Wrote:(August 22, 2015 at 10:48 am)ChadWooters Wrote: That's a slightly deceptive edit, Whateverist. I did not use the multiverse as the premise of a proof for God. The speculative theory of the multiverse is an argument of convenience for atheists who do not want to face-up to the obvious implications of a fine-tuned universe. My point was that the multiverse theory provides no such opportunity. The theory says that the particular fundamental forces and constants of our universe need not have been as they are. The natural laws governing an adjacent universe could be otherwise. The whole theory resolves into one of two positions, either 1) reality is absurd or 2) meta-laws govern the process of universe generation. If the atheist takes the first option then he undermines the very idea of rationality. If he takes the second, he must acknowledge that fine-tuning is a real aspect of, not only our universe, but of the multiverse as a whole.
Sorry I missed this, Chad. (Been pretty busy on the home front.)
I'm surprised you would say "the multiverse is an argument of convenience for atheists who do not want to face-up to the obvious implications of a fine-tuned universe". Personally, I am unable to imagine that there is not a larger frame of reference than a universe. Obviously you think so too. But for you the larger frame of reference involves the supernatural. Surely though you don't really think the multiverse theory only exists as an atheist strategy. That would really be quite a conspiracy. I guess you mean that's why we like it. But my sense on this forum is that multiversalists are not in the majority among atheists.
As to facing up to a well tuned universe, what is the comparison by which we are to conclude that ours is more or less well tuned than your average universe? That again is information none of us may possess as far as I know.
I haven't a clue why you think anything I might believe which has to do with being an atheist obliges me to think reality is absurd. I suppose one could look at it that way. But I don't. I'd rather say it is exquisite.
Any fine tuning argument is always at best an inference which is why I very rarely find myself defending them. If you take the apparent design of the universe as a brute fact you may certainly do so . My issue is with those who recognize the apparent design and go further to justify their opinion using a speculative Multiverse theory. Once you appeal to causes outside the known universe and the natural laws to which it conforms you have already given up the game. Any such cause is by definition supernatural. I find it either disingenuous or downright stupid to ridicule people who openly accept the possibility of the supernatural when they themselves tacitly accept it.