RE: Birmingham Quran fragments older than Muhammad...lol
August 31, 2015 at 3:39 pm
(This post was last modified: August 31, 2015 at 3:40 pm by Minimalist.)
I take it that we can agree that no fucking "angel" chatted up "mohammed" in a cave and dictated the fucking koran to him, right? That's as utterly improbable as a dead jew coming back to life after being crucified! History does not need miracles to work.
So what was going on historically on the Arabian Peninsula in the late 6th century. Essentially the answer was war. But it is not the simplistic tale that modern muslims tell. Learn about the Ghassanids.
http://www.royalhouseofghassan.org/history/
They were monophysite xtians and, as far as the Byzantines were concerned, heretics. BUT. They performed a useful function holding the southern flank against the Persians. The heresy here is a dispute about the single or dual nature of jesus so, if you are interested in such shit, a fairly major point of doctrinal difference. Still, religion only goes so far when you need allies. The thing is that the notion of a heretical xtian force is consistent with the ideas of Luxenberg that the koran was a re-hash of heretical xtian writings and here we have an army of xtian heretics which suddenly finds itself the last man standing after the Byzantines and Persians tore each other to shreds in the early 7th century.
Again, history is about probabilities not fucking miracles. Which is more probable is the question you need to ask yourself.
So what was going on historically on the Arabian Peninsula in the late 6th century. Essentially the answer was war. But it is not the simplistic tale that modern muslims tell. Learn about the Ghassanids.
http://www.royalhouseofghassan.org/history/
Quote:The Ghassanids were a group of South Arabian Christian tribes that emigrated in the early 3rd century from Yemen to the Hauran in southern Syria, Jordan and the Holy Land where some intermarried with Hellenized Roman settlers and Greek-speaking Early Christian communities. The term Ghassan refers to the kingdom of the Ghassanids. The Sabean Prince Jafna bin 'Amr emigrated with his family and retinue north and settled in Hauran (south of Damascus, present Syria), where the first Ghassanid state was founded. From him the Ghassanid line is also sometimes known as the Jafnids. It is assumed that the Ghassanids adopted the religion of Christianity after they reached their new home. The Romans found a powerful ally in the new coming Arabs of Southern Syria. The Ghassanids were defenders of the buffer zone against the other Bedouins penetrating Roman territory. The capital was at Jabiyah in the Golan Heights. Geographically, it occupied much of Syria, Mount Hermon (Lebanon), Jordan and Israel, part of present Iraq, Saudi Arabia and its authority extended via tribal alliances with other Azdi tribes all the way to the northern Hijaz as far south as Yathrib (Medina).
The Byzantine Empire was focused more on the East and a long war with the Persians was always their main concern. The Ghassanids maintained their rule as the guardian of trade routes, policed Bedouin tribes and was a source of troops for the Byzantine army. The Ghassanid king al-Harith ibn Jabalah (reigned 529-569) supported the Byzantines against Sassanid Persia and was given the title "Basileus" (Augustus or 'Imperial Majesty') and 'Patricius' (Noble of the Byzantine Empire) in 529 by the emperor Justinian I. Al-Harith was a Miaphysite Christian; he helped to revive the Syrian Miaphysite (Jacobite) Church and supported Miaphysite development despite Orthodox Byzantium regarding it as heretical. The Ghassanids, who had successfully opposed the Persian, allied Lakhmids of al-Hirah (Southern Iraq and Northern Arabia), prospered economically and engaged in much religious and public building; they also patronized the arts and at one time entertained the poets Nabighah adh-Dhubyani and Hassan ibn Thabit at their courts. The Ghassanid Kings were masters of the wars but 'addicted to poetry'.
They were monophysite xtians and, as far as the Byzantines were concerned, heretics. BUT. They performed a useful function holding the southern flank against the Persians. The heresy here is a dispute about the single or dual nature of jesus so, if you are interested in such shit, a fairly major point of doctrinal difference. Still, religion only goes so far when you need allies. The thing is that the notion of a heretical xtian force is consistent with the ideas of Luxenberg that the koran was a re-hash of heretical xtian writings and here we have an army of xtian heretics which suddenly finds itself the last man standing after the Byzantines and Persians tore each other to shreds in the early 7th century.
Again, history is about probabilities not fucking miracles. Which is more probable is the question you need to ask yourself.
