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Proof Mind is Fundamental and Matter Doesn't Exist
#49
RE: Proof Mind is Fundamental and Matter Doesn't Exist
(September 14, 2015 at 8:17 pm)bennyboy Wrote:
(September 14, 2015 at 3:08 pm)Jörmungandr Wrote: Moreover, you're assuming that a full explanation of mind won't show how matter is essential to mind.  That's an argument from ignorance
Aren't you also now assuming that there's a theoretical state in which a full explanation of mind can or will be known?  Are you assuming that science, which has demonstrated very little facility in addressing philosophical issues of cosmogony or psychogony, just hasn't got there "yet"?

It seems to me that mind is a special case, and that the belief that it can or will be fully explained is at this point little more than a statement of faith.

Why? What is the evidence that points in that direction? I find it silly that in an universe so big, that is made out of matter/energy as far as anything can "see", the mind, which is such an insignificant phenomenon compared to the scale of the universe, must be of such utter importance to the workings of the universe itself.

Moreover, depending on your definition of mind, the evidence we have implies that the universe has existed for several billion years without any minds in it. So how is it then? Did the universe just spontaneously come to exist when the first cell became "aware" of the stimuli that surrounded it? If so, how did the cell begin to exist in the first place? (Jeesh)

All the evidence we have suggests that what we call 'mind', that is, the summa of our conscious sensations and behaviours (including our ability of recognising patterns, which in turn allows us to think abstractly) is "made" by the workings of a neural network. There was a recent study that showed that changing only one synapse in the worm Caenorhabditis elegans causes dramatic changes to its behaviour. Now, C. elegans is just a tiny little worm, but still, its behaviour and senses are controlled by a nervous system which functions basically in the same way as ours. The only difference is that our nervous system is several orders of magnitude bigger and more complex, and therefore allows for a bigger variety of behaviours, sensations etc.

Saying that the mind is a special case that won't ever be explained by science is a position that is completely unsupported by evidence, and is one of that kind of arguments that try to hold back the most fundamental human longing for the unknown.

And you know what? I think it's reasonable to make "statements of faith" and to trust that science will get there eventually. History pretty much shows us that doing so is like betting on a horse that always wins.
"Every luxury has a deep price. Every indulgence, a cosmic cost. Each fiber of pleasure you experience causes equivalent pain somewhere else. This is the first law of emodynamics [sic]. Joy can be neither created nor destroyed. The balance of happiness is constant.

Fact: Every time you eat a bite of cake, someone gets horsewhipped.

Facter: Every time two people kiss, an orphanage collapses.

Factest: Every time a baby is born, an innocent animal is severely mocked for its physical appearance. Don't be a pleasure hog. Your every smile is a dagger. Happiness is murder.

Vote "yes" on Proposition 1321. Think of some kids. Some kids."
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Messages In This Thread
RE: Proof Mind is Fundamental and Matter Doesn't Exist - by Lucanus - September 15, 2015 at 3:37 am
RE: Proof Mind is Fundamental and Matter Doesn't Exist - by Cato - September 18, 2015 at 12:16 am

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